this is a lot of text but I would love you to read it and post about it
100% agree with the given opinions. I was 12 in 1989 btw.
>The good ting about East Geramny was the way people trusted one another, and even told their competitors about their business.
What a load of bullshit.
You had to be nice to your neighbour, because you never knew when you would need the shit he had stockpiled.
That and ratting out people to the Stasi.
> 41 year old
Drop some krautpills on us youngsters.
yes communism wasn't that bad on the poland and germany.
>renowned Socialist realist artist laments the loss of government subsidies
I would miss free money, too, I guess.
>Fatmaster joking about free monis
That's not even funny anymore, you know? Not after 2008 and Obongocare.
I'll save and read later
It only takes a couple of minutes you gibbering cretin.
Socialism is never funny.
Capitalism is best!
t. American dick suckers.
I've read the whole book that this exert is from, there was a BBC series on it as well.
It's called "The Lost World of Communism"
Good, remember the US and Merkel is listening and recording everything you post and say.
Would you recommend the book?
Watched this documentary recently (it's in english). It's pretty accurate regards mysterious ossi soul and way of life in east germany. Ignore the comment section. They are either from bitter communists or know it all wessis.
Socialism: paradise for workers, nightmare for consumers
Capitalism: nightmare for workers, paradise for consumers
In both systems you are treated like shit the only difference being what part of the day you are served your daily ration of humiliation.
'What is communism? It is the longest road from capitalism to capitalism.'
-East European Joke
TWO DECADES AFTER the fall of communism in Eastern Europe, a rose-tinted view of the past persists in certain quarters. In today's unified Germany such Ostalgia (Ostalgie) — nostalgia for East Germany — is even experienced by those too young to remember life under communism. Such feelings were reinforced by the success of films such as the 2003 comedy Goodbye Lenin. As a result, a whole industry devoted to exploiting memories of the communist past developed.
Erotic dancers like the Magdeburger Models stripped off East German army uniforms. Singing groups like the Easty Girls performed communist songs to a techno beat interspersed with rap-style clips from Erich Honecker's speeches. At one time there were plans for a mini East Germany theme park, Ossie World. Travel agencies ran, and still run, Ostalgia tours. There is a cachet about East German design and communist kitsch — communist condoms, Vita Cola (East Germany's answer to Coca-Cola) and the canned aroma of Trabant fumes have all been marketed by the purveyors of Ostalgia. An East-German-themed youth hostel, Ostel, opened in Berlin in 2007.
More significantly, immediately after the raising of the Iron Curtain there emerged a host of difficulties for former communist countries, in respect both of coming to terms with the past and adjusting to the future. This was especially the case in Germany, which faced the challenge of unification. It soon became apparent to many East Europeans that capitalism too, with features like unemployment and its emphasis on individualism, was a flawed system. And many people didn't accept as accurate the harshly drawn pictures of their previous existence. East German actress Corinna Hartfouch put it like this: 'I cannot recognize my country from the way it is depicted in the press and media. We didn't just have autumn and winter. We had spring and summer too. Life wasn't just about the Stasi.'
East German singer Chris Doerk, who, like many others from the DDR, still feels at heart an East German, puts it just as strongly. 'It makes me angry when the DRR is often reduced to the Stasi and I don't know what more. Sometimes I have a feeling they think we lived in clay huts. Some people talk about the country in such a strange way: "In the DDR the bigwigs feasted and the people starved to death in the streets." I ask myself, "Did I live in a different country?" Because where I lived such things didn't happen. I am not immersed in nostalgia, I live in the here and now, but there are many things I miss about the DDR. The social network, the day-care centres; working mothers could leave their children in kindergartens, art and culture had a much higher value then. Many people say they are worse off nowadays. All right they can travel, but when you're on the dole and don't earn money you cannot travel. These are the things that make our people angry. I didn't lead a bad life in the DRR.
Although few want a return to communist rule, some people miss aspects of their lives under communism. Walter Womacka, a renowned Socialist Realist artist in East Germany, rues the loss of subsidy for the arts that was typical of the DDR. 'Art was a big concern in East Germany. A lot of money was spent on it, and the effects of that investment were clearly visible. Nowadays, East Germans used to seeing public art, paintings, sculpture, concerts, theatre, are very disappointed with what has happened. For example, today theatre tickets are very expensive and so only an elite few can afford them. And that's to say nothing about art funding.
'Look at my area — the fine arts. In Dresden, every four years there used to be a big exhibition in the Albertinum where contemporary art in general was on display. At the beginning, trade unions would bring people to the exhibitions but later that wasn't necessary any more, art became a matter of interest to everyone and visitors started attending voluntarily. At the last exhibition we had more than a million people turn up. Today people constantly ask why such things don't happen any more. Also, there were many individual exhibitions organized by museums. Amateurs were promoted. These were the great achievements that people still bear in mind, but they have disappeared.
'Nobody was happy about the Wall. But it was a means to an end. No one expected it to disappear the way it did, and so fast too. It was one of those moments in history, which can either be used to one's advantage or to one's disadvantage.
'I certainly miss the way people used to live together. Living side by side was good in the DDR. Most former DDR citizens miss that today. Money matters were of no importance back then, whereas nowadays they are more important than anything, because everything depends on money. The good thing about East Germany was the way people trusted one another, and even told their competitors about their business. That would be impossible today. These are the things that I miss.'
britain you are my greatest ally
>Capitalism: ok for workers,
capitalism gives the chance of running your own business/self-employment.
this is nothing to do with communism it's to do with old times. we were not commie but we had to sames including mandatory skirts.
The main reason why socialism always fails is because most employees fuck around and get drunk instead of actually working. Meanwhile in the efficency oriented capitalism if you don't toil you get fired
I'm too young to have been experiencing it. Only have second hand descriptions and artefacts from that era.
Your text is more or less right. The most agreed upon sentence is: it was bad, but no worse than what is now. It was bad for different reasons.
- There was censorship - but there is now too, just more subtle.
- No free travel abroad - but, as the text says, it's now restricted by lack of money.
- A central ideology forced upon the people - it's the same now, only the ideology changed.
- Everyone watched by the secret police - also no change, except now more agencies watch our every move, including forign agencies.
- Scarcity of basic items - that was the worst part, and that's gone. But the quality of many items also dropped. (And many others improved.)
- Only one channel on TV.
- Infrastructure wasn't very good. Telephone was a scarcity.
- You didn't have to worry about losing your job. On the other hand, not having a job was a crime. And your past (I mean not profession-related) greatly affected what kind of a job you could get - well, this part didn't change a lot.
- Uglyness in architecture. The so called socialist-realist style. It's fugly and depressing. BUT: today's postmodern style isn't better at all.
There were positive things too.
- Cheap travel in the country. Cheap hostels, bathhouses, etc.
- Much less forign influence on culture. Russian influence was much smaller and less intrusive than today's American influence.
- The golden age of Hungarian movies was the socialist era. After the regime change it went downfall. Now they try to make it reborn, but what we get now are not Hungarian movies but American movies in wich they speak Hungarian. Curiously they enabled films to be made such as would never get founding and/or permission today. Maybe I will write about them too.
- There was no guilt-tripping of the population. Sensitive topics like the war and 1956 were rather not talked about than telling the people that you are guilty of this and this and this.
- There was no private banking. The best thing the commies ever did was to nationalize the banks. Loans had had small interest and deposits payed a decent interest.
- By the nature of socialist economy many taxes known today were nonexistent.
- There was a decent industry and agriculture and it was in national property not property of forign capital.
Forgot to add: crime rate was a lot lower than now.
I loved under Obango for 8 years, let me tell you communism was hard.
I was only 11 when the wall came down so i never had to deal with any of the shit that older people had to deal with like Stasi or army service.
Childhood in east germany was pretty sheltered and worriless (except fearing nuclear war). In the sense that everyone left their doors open and kids could play alone outside all day with no parent fearing that something bad could happen. There was very little crime and violence in general, no drug addicts etc.
In kindergarten and school we got indoctrinated into believing we live in the best country in the world (murrican tier) and it made us proud and happy.
What's kinda interesting is that we didn't live in a bubble like North Koreans. We watched western TV every day and were pretty much interested in the same pop culture as far as movies, music, fashion trends etc. Only thing was that some things were taboo to talk about in school from what we saw.
Lacking range of goods was the biggest issue in every day life. For instance the lack of bananas is a well known meme. As ossi kids if we got our hands on anything from the west, even some bullshit like advertising pamphlets it all was like precious treasures to us. But there was no hunger or anything like that. We always had enough to eat.
Examples of movies I wrote about:
- A határozat (The resolution): higher level communist functionaries scheming to remove the chief of a TSZ (Termelő Szövetkezet - "Agricultural union" the form of socialist collective farming) by smear-campaign. The curiosity is that it was a real story, with the actual people in the movie, and was done with open cameras, not hidden.
- Vörös föld (Red earth): a highly critical movie about the "existing socialism". It's about a miner who finds bauxit near his village. He thinks he found his luck but it's more of a curse becouse of the attitude of the management.
I wrote a wall of text, and now nobody cares.
>East German singer Christian Dork
That's one big part of faggots lamenting. They miss their relative status in the social ladder. It was shit for near everyone and it is now better for near everyone, but some faggot barman remembers how he was the elite then building houses from money earned by mixing water into beer and how pouring beer makes him just a barman now.
Well, the USSR was worse than the satelite states. Baltics probably better than Russia. I know that in Odessa in the late '70-s even toilet paper was in shortage, they had to use newspaper.
Welcome to my life.
>- There was censorship - but there is now too, just more subtle.
>- No free travel abroad - but, as the text says, it's now restricted by lack of money.
>- A central ideology forced upon the people - it's the same now, only the ideology changed.
>- Everyone watched by the secret police - also no change, except now more agencies watch our every move, including forign agencies.
>- Scarcity of basic items - that was the worst part, and that's gone. But the quality of many items also dropped. (And many others improved.)
Fucking special snowflake whining. "My mum is literally Hitler and school is like Auschwitz, just more subtle"
Yugoslavia was bretty good.
East Germany, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia were OK.
Poland and Bulgaria were Meh.
USSR, Romania, and Albania were complete shit.
dad went to school in soviet moscow, he spent his time eating well, drinking well and dating native qt's.
family uprooted after a few years back to the west when the USSR was nearing its deathbed, apparently Moscow was the happiest time of his life.
Where is it inaccurate? It's easy to just throw shaming words. Try and refute the claims!
also to build off this babushka was very unhappy in the USSR, but she had a drinking problem at the time. Grandad was perfectly happy with a decent chemical engineering job, from what bits my dad every talked about Moscow was a fun place to grow up as a teen.
Then and Now Moscow was the showpiece capital where everything is better. Most Russian provincial cities had food rationing beginning in the 1970s, while Moscow still had food on the shelves. Things got worse when people from outside Moscow started coming to Moscow on weekends to buy food, that why the lines became so long.
t. former resident of Moscow Oblast
German internet expert Bernd Kaizetier, who, like many others from Germany, still feels at heart a Reichsdeutscher, puts it just as strongly. 'It makes me angry when das Deutsche Reich is often reduced the SS and I don't know what more. Sometimes I have a feeling they think we genocided jews 24/7. Some people talk about the country in such a strange way: "In the 3rd Reich the Aryans feasted and the Untermenschen were put into the KZ." I ask myself, "Did I life in a different country?" Because where I lived such things didn't happen.
so basically if we find a way to fix the economic problems due to lack of productivity and efficiency we should bring back real socialism according to the experiences ITT. which we may thanks to computers.
I always get so baffled when I see a nonsense that deep that I don't even know where to begin.
Btw, you know what: the censorship is not even more subtle. There were certain things one couldn't say then, and there are certain things one cannot say now. They don't throw you to jail for saying them, and they didn't throw you to jail then either. They just didn't give you platform to say those things and hurt you economically - just like now.
(We are talking about the '70-s and onwards. Of course the era from '45 to about '68 was different. Real terror.)
Plz stop. In 1980 Estonian professor Jüri Kukk gave a letter to the foreign journalists in Moscow where he protested against the Soviet War in Afghanistan. He was imprisoned and in 1981 sentenced to 2 years of forced labor in Siberia. He declared a hunger strike and was somehow killed by forced feeding.
This was censorship and oppression. You're just a whining snowflake.
I unironically think that the failure of communism has more to do with the places that adopted it than the actual theory itself. If the West had been commie, and Russia and China had been capitalist they would still have been shitholes and we would currently be laughing about the discredited philosophy of capitalism and how it never worked.
I think nations are crafted by history, geography and culture and that the actual economic or political theory of those countries is irreleavnt. Europe and America were always going to be rich and decadent. Russia and South America are always going to be corrupt mismanaged shitholes.
Also the only reason that Eastern Europe is doing better under capitalism than it was under communism is because it drifted from Russia's orbit to Europes.
But please don't take from this that I'm a communist. I'm not. I just think political theory is more or less irrelevant, and that if you want to have a nice life, you should arrange to be born in a nice country.
Pretty convenient that the border of culture inside Germany ran at exactly the same place where they put the East Germany's border. Same with North and South Korea.
People forget fast. They should never again glorify socialism
>The good ting about East Geramny was the way people trusted one another, and even told their competitors about their business.
I wonder if this guys still believes he's being monitored by the Stasi
See my above comment about orbits.
Really activates your almonds
It is very much about the system also. Socialism has 10,000 little or big ways it fails and these things add up and multiply. Finland was heavily abused by the USSR, but since it could retain the free market system it came through it without heavy damage.
USSR was different than the satellite states, I told that earlier. Also this: >>43464213 is kind of accurate.
In Hungary they rarely, if at all, imprisoned "wrongthinkers" after the consolidation. And did not murder them. If somebody was way too itchy they found the way to make his/her life miserable that's true.
Now, in Russia political murder and forced disappearence still occures.
In Hungary - I really didn't want to bring this up but it's a convinient example - you can actually land in jail for denying the Holocaust. It's not just a meme.
You are living in some sort of fantasy world. You are ignorant of the current times and ignorant of the history and suffer from a serious edgyness syndrome. That's why I didn't want to respond to you at first and only did after you started bitching about no replies.
Theatre tickets aren't expensive and there's a massive art fair in Kassel every five years.
I can't see anything that's worse today except for people becoming a bit more greedy because lots of money makes people more greedy.
>there was one good thing about communism: everyone was equal because nobody had anything.
>In Hungary - I really didn't want to bring this up but it's a convinient example - you can actually land in jail for denying the Holocaust. It's not just a meme.
>denying the holocaust is the same as disapproving the entire political and economical system
I thought Stasi isn't about communism, but capitalizm. Is it Russian education?
Also they are kinda right. Even if you have NKWD and Stasi as your neighbours, it doesn't automatically mean you gotta get gulaged the next day. So many people never knew the horrors of gommunizm.
Those that did, could have also saw some of it's benefits, like mechanization and housing, stable jobes.