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Veröffentlicht am 2016-09-05 22:07:3 in /prog/

/prog/ 9159: Hallo, ich kann nicht guten Deutsch sprechen fur scheis...

n1ght_coder Avatar
n1ght_coder:#9159

Hallo, ich kann nicht guten Deutsch sprechen fur scheisse, so ich bin tut uns leid.

Ich machte ein Programming Language. Es hat Deutsch alphabet in variable names und function names. (umlauts, sharp-S)

https://github.com/LandonPowell/DeviousYarn/

Die dokumentation ist scheisse und in Englisch, ich bin tut uns leid.
Es ist wie LISP, aber "prefix(arg)" und nicht "(s-expression arg)".

Denkst du Deutsch programmierer will etwas wie das? Ob ja, ich werde ubersetzen dokumentation und keywords.

Auch, der language ist ein prototype.

jonesdigidesign Avatar
jonesdigidesign:#9160

>>9159
>Hallo, ich kann nicht guten Deutsch sprechen fur scheisse, so ich bin tut uns leid.

>translation by google
Senpai, that just makes it much more awkward.

>Ich machte ein Programming Language. Es hat Deutsch alphabet in variable names und function names. (umlauts, sharp-S)
Does this include the astral planes?


>https://github.com/LandonPowell/DeviousYarn/
>Die dokumentation ist scheisse und in Englisch, ich bin tut uns leid.
>Es ist wie LISP, aber "prefix(arg)" und nicht "(s-expression arg)".
>another tool for string manipulation ...


>Denkst du Deutsch programmierer will etwas wie das?
There will always be that retard that favors LISP.
Altough, without s-expressions I'm not that sure.
For everyone else, why wouldn't they use Perl(5/6) or AWK instead?

>Ob ja, ich werde ubersetzen dokumentation und keywords.
>Auch, der language ist ein prototype.
No, every competent programmer can read english well enough anyway; for the sole reason that much required literature only exists in english.
Also, translated keywords ruined Excel, so don't.

danro Avatar
danro:#9162

>>9160
Sorry, the translation wasn't google. It was my shitty attempt at speaking German from what I learned in my German I class in highschool and pigeoning English in whenever I couldn't easily find the word I wanted in online dictionaries.

>Does this include the astral planes?
If it's a joke about some misuse of a word, I don't get it, for obvious reasons.

You wouldn't use Perl because it's vulnerability inducing, which makes it horrible for web development, and you can't read anything that's been written after ten minutes of not looking at it or not having written it yourself.

You wouldn't use AWK because the syntax is almost as bad as Perl. It's effectively bash scripting.

I could easily give the same argument in reverse though. Why would you use Perl or Awk when you could use DeviousYarn?

To avoid any tangential arguments about Perl: I've noticed a lot of foreign programmers like to comment their code in their native language. I've even noticed them using Romanizations of their language's words in their variable names, especially Chinks. Should I leave support for non-ASCII characters in variable names?

garethbjenkins Avatar
garethbjenkins:#9163

>>9162

>Does this include the astral planes?
If it's a joke about some misuse of a word, I don't get it, for obvious reasons.
No, it's about the higher code points of Unicode. Aka, can it work with umbrella cat emojis? I sure hope not.

>You wouldn't use Perl because it's vulnerability inducing
Fucking almost dropped right there.
You better delete that garbage tier meme from your brain, especially if you got it from that memester Netanel Rubin that is so fucking punchable to complain about documented oddities in the language in his Perl Jams. What a 1337 haxxor. [Triggered]
There is literally nothing wrong with Perl.
Except that it's modern art, but...

>I could easily give the same argument in reverse though. Why would you use Perl or Awk when you could use DeviousYarn?
You mean, except
* unlike Perl and AWK it doesn't come preinstalled
* your stuff isn't tested
* capable team behind at least Perl (I'm not so sure with GNU stuff) vs you behind DY
* tons of libraries, support and documentation for Perl and AWK, even if CPAN is overrated
* the syntax is really not convincing

>inb4 but I mean when it's done
But until then I could create my own string manipulation language or hope that something sane like Lily is done in the meantime.

>To avoid any tangential arguments about Perl: I've noticed a lot of foreign programmers like to comment their code in their native language. I've even noticed them using Romanizations of their language's words in their variable names, especially Chinks. Should I leave support for non-ASCII characters in variable names?
There is nothing wrong with full Unicode support in names - in fact, I'd expect it in a scripting language that claims to be good with strings. But if possible, make the parser throw errors on emojis and other special symbols.

Also, it's spelled declaration.

jeremyworboys Avatar
jeremyworboys:#9165

1. Where is the CFG for DY?
2. Where is the PLEAC for DY?
3. Where is the DY section on Rosettacode or Stackoverflow Docs?
4. Where is the internal string model of DY described? Is any part of it depending on the machine architecture, e.g. x86_64 vs. 586?
5. How do I determine the count of codepoints and count of graphemes in a string?
6. How do I convert between GB18030 and UTF-8 encodings?
7. How does the decoder deal with characters that are well-formed in UTF-8, but illegal in Unicode? If not strictly forbidden, are there any other limitations one should know about?
8. How do I convert between Unicode normalisation forms?
9. How do I access the nv (Numeric_Value) property in the UCD for a certain codepoint?
10. What is the foldcase operator or function called in DY?
11. How do I sort strings according to a certain Unicode locale, e.g. `de_phonebook`?
12. Assuming Azeri text, how do I change DUCET so that Eski matches Əski and yasadigimiz matches yaşadığımız?
13. How do I encode/decode JSON or XML in DY?
14. Considering the results of the Great Unicode Shoot-out (OSCON 2011 presentation), how well do you think DY would place among the competition on the slide about feature support? (There is no need to provide evidence for your claim.)

mfacchinello Avatar
mfacchinello:#9166

>>9159
> scheisse und in Englisch
Fasst, mit Verlaub, diesen Faden ziemlich gut zusammen.

Hätte wenigstens eine interessante neue Sprache erwartet. So ist's nur Werbung.

tereshenkov Avatar
tereshenkov:#9169

>>9166
Naja, das Englisch hat Herr >>9160 aufgenötigt. Aber lieber vernünftiges Englisch als kaputtes Deutsch, da kriegt man bloß schlechte Laune.

> eine interessante neue Sprache
Womöglich könnte dir Perl 6 gefallen. http://perl6.org/compilers/features
Vom Entwurfsansatz her ist es das genaue Gegenteil von einem Einzelfrickler.

mandalareopens Avatar
mandalareopens:#9172

>>9169
>Naja, das Englisch hat Herr >>9160 aufgenötigt. Aber lieber vernünftiges Englisch als kaputtes Deutsch, da kriegt man bloß schlechte Laune.

Tut Bernd leid, aber das dachte er auch. Zumal OP es ja geschafft hat, noch schlechter als Google Übersetz zu übersetzen.

okcoker Avatar
okcoker:#9179

>>9163
>No, it's about the higher code points of Unicode. Aka, can it work with umbrella cat emojis? I sure hope not.
Yeah, it can. It supports 100% of unicode sans whitespace and reserved symbols. I see no reason why it shouldn't work with umbrella cat emojis.

>Fucking almost dropped right there.
>You better delete that garbage tier meme from your brain, especially if you got it from that memester Netanel Rubin that is so fucking punchable to complain about documented oddities in the language in his Perl Jams. What a 1337 haxxor. [Triggered]
>There is literally nothing wrong with Perl.
>Except that it's modern art, but...
Oh god, you're one of those. Calling something a meme isn't a counter argument, you stupid fuck. No, documented oddities don't become acceptable just because they're documented. Oddities are oddities, and just because you've written down how your language is broken, it doesn't become unbroken.
I do like your comparison to modern art though. Nobody understands what it means except the one who creates it, I guess?

>* unlike Perl and AWK it doesn't come preinstalled
Perl (and sometimes even AWK) don't come preinstalled either, depending on your distro. I'm sure I could shill some distro maintainers into throwing DY into their distro by default.
My language is still WIP though, so I really wouldn't recommend you switch from AWK to it just yet.

>* your stuff isn't tested
'Tested' as in not stood the test of time? Neither has AWK or Perl. Perl died out in favor of PHP, and AWK died out in favor of Bash. Don't take this as an implication that I like either of their replacements though.

>* capable team behind at least Perl (I'm not so sure with GNU stuff) vs you behind DY
KEK. Perl devs are so fucking incapable that they've been sued because members of their team didn't know how a contract works.

>* tons of libraries, support and documentation for Perl and AWK, even if CPAN is overrated
So what you're saying is that nobody should use anything other than C and Python?

>* the syntax is really not convincing
You said you don't like LISP, so I suppose AST-obvious syntax might be something you dislike generally, but I really don't see what the issue you have with it is. Do you dislike the way it doesn't force you to use specific tokens for specific things? I could probably add some more strictness to the parser, if you think it'd be better.

carlosgavina Avatar
carlosgavina:#9180

>>9165
>1. Where is the CFG for DY?
Haven't written one.
>2. Where is the PLEAC for DY?
Like I said, the documentation is shit.
>3. Where is the DY section on Rosettacode or Stackoverflow Docs?
http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:DeviousYarn
It's not on stackoverflow.
>4. Where is the internal string model of DY described? Is any part of it depending on the machine architecture, e.g. x86_64 vs. 586?
It's not architecture dependent, and if it appears to be, report the issue as a bug please. String models and low-level details about DY aren't documented yet. As I said, documentation is shit. If you want the syntax for literals or anything high-level like that, it's all in the github wiki, where low level shit will eventually be documented as well.
>5. How do I determine the count of codepoints and count of graphemes in a string?
Codepoints: Just use the 'length' function.
Graphemes: Depending on your definition of grapheme, you can use either
[code]
length:the-string-name
[/code]
or
[code]
length:, the-string-name $' '$'' ,
[/code]
I'll be adding in a less broken way to deal with graphemes later.
>7. How does the decoder deal with characters that are well-formed in UTF-8, but illegal in Unicode? If not strictly forbidden, are there any other limitations one should know about?
All strings are (should be) encoded in UTF-8, so illegal Unicode should be no big deal so long as it's well formed UTF-8.
>8. How do I convert between Unicode normalisation forms?
Normalization* isn't properly implemented yet.
>10. What is the foldcase operator or function called in DY?
I haven't implemented 'foldcase' yet, or many char-manipulations at all.
I've got 'uppercase', 'lowercase', and 'jadenSmith' implemented though.
The 'samefold' aka 'caselessCheck' function might deal with your needs for now.

Operators and functions are the same thing in DeviousYarn, by the way.

>13. How do I encode/decode JSON or XML in DY?

In design, it should be the DecodeJSON, JSON, DecodeXML, and XML, functions, respectively. I'm probably not going to get around to that until I start making a webframework though. I still haven't made proper associative arrays yet though, so if I made them now, they'd just become the 'tree' datatype.

>14. Considering the results of the Great Unicode Shoot-out (OSCON 2011 presentation), how well do you think DY would place among the competition on the slide about feature support? (There is no need to provide evidence for your claim.)
I haven't seen it. Link?
If I had to guess though, my language (in it's current state) would probably be kind of shitty unless it's getting compared to PHP.

Questions 6, 9, 11, and 12 are also not yet implemented.

mat_stevens Avatar
mat_stevens:#9182

> OP von google translate
> Hurr, meine Sprache erlaubt Umlaute als Bezeichner (scheint mit Go wirklich schwierig)
> vom Sägen keine Ahnung
Was soll das? Zurück zum 4kanal!

joshuapekera Avatar
joshuapekera:#9183

>>9182
Beruhigen, nigger faggot.

aiiaiiaii Avatar
aiiaiiaii:#9184

>>9182
Trolle füttert man nicht.

nehemiasec Avatar
nehemiasec:#9186

>>9159
>Landon Powell from Atlanta
>Facebook tier picture with 14yo faggot on an adult board
>FizzBuzz memes
>faggotclub website
>garbage meme projects with cringeworthy description
>le funy german programmer meme XD
>hurr durr, my garbage tier string scripting language dangerous yawn beats Perl, AWK, Tcl and other tools hands down
>I assume I know about Unicode
>but at least it has a logo, just as 4chinks told me

Das muss ein Lockmittel sein.

xspirits Avatar
xspirits:#9188

>>9186
>stating my name and city
>saying I have memes
>complaining about club TLD
>saying I look younger than I am
I see no issue with any of these.

>garbage meme projects with cringeworthy description
Specifics? Also, 'cringeworthy' is a garbage meme.

>le funy german programmer meme XD
How is this a meme, and how did I use that meme? I went to the /prog/ board on krautchan because my programming language has a feature that Krauts may or may not enjoy. Then again >imageboard >enjoying things.

>hurr durr, my garbage tier string scripting language dangerous yawn beats Perl, AWK, Tcl and other tools hands down
Never said this, except for about Perl. Not programming at all beats Perl.
I'd never even imply my language is close to the unsung work of art that is Tcl. It inspired a lot of my language's features.

>I assume I know about Unicode
I didn't assume this. I only know enough to answer simple questions, like if my language has a foldcase function. On the other hand, it's a string manipulation language, not a byte/char manipulation language, so clearly you don't know what the fuck unicode is.

>but at least it has a logo, just as 4chinks told me
Yeah, my language is clearly bad because it has a logo.

Could you stop making personal attacks and start stating things you dislike about the language and things you'd prefer?

linux29 Avatar
linux29:#9189

>>9188
>I see no issue with any of these.
Are you serious? Then again, I'm not convinced most of your other bullshit posts are some form of Terry-tier 16/8 trolling.
In the unlikely case it isn't it's like you watched stuff happen and came to the wrong conclusion 99% of the time. A small example at the bottom...

>I went to the /prog/ board on krautchan because my programming language has a feature that Krauts may or may not enjoy.
Which is? It's not like we are starving for languages supporting Unicode, those are ubiquitary. We - as everyone else - enjoy things that are an improvement.
-> The other possible conclusion why you went to krautchan instead of 4chinks, leddit and h4xxornews is that krautchan has far less users and therefore you thought we can't completely dox/ravage/call you out/ban you for trolling.

>On the other hand, it's a string manipulation language, not a byte/char manipulation language, so clearly you don't know what the fuck unicode is.
>byte/char manipulation
>he thinks Unicode is an encoding and it's only important for the underlying facility.
So clearly you don't know what the fuck unicode is. Pro-tip: It's a feature and there is a reason why libiconv is that big beside its encoding support.

But if - again, in the unlikely case that isn't 180% tier trolling - you really want to know what's wrong with your language, here are some hints:

>I'd never even imply my language is close to the unsung work of art that is Tcl. It inspired a lot of my language's features.

Then why the fuck

- can't one embed and extend the interpreter - in fact, every interpreter that isn't garbage can be
- is the syntax still objectively hideous, which is the reason Tcl doesn't have a major share in the scripting language business beside being a payload for Tk (and I really say that as someone with a soft spot for Tcl)
- do you think that string processing languages without any other functions have a purpose these days?

Some re-education camping: Unlike what you said, AWK didn't went away because of bash and its tools and the web never was the relevant part for Perl, so PHP never replaced it. What really happened is that after some suffering with grep, AWK etc. admins and bistrobutors and the kernel programmers realized that the usual UNIX command line tools for text processing are complete and utter garbage, one couldn't rely on them being installed (or being the same version) or support encodings beyond ASCII, the whole "small tools that do one job well" theory failed etc. Then said people started to introduce scripting languages like Perl and Python that were powerful out of the box and work somewhat platform independent and they tore AWK away.
Unlike what you said, both Perl and Python today come preinstalled on all bistros relevant for scripting, as well as OSX and Solaris. On the BSDs they are just one install away for license reasons. Windows obviously never had a really successful scripting story and they tried at least three times, but at least you can install said scripting languages and at least the core packages will work.
Tcl THEN decided that in order to survive at all they would need to muscle up and become a general purpose scripting language and so they did, with rather mild success of course, because the language itself wasn't and still isn't built for it.

Plot twist: The whole "the UNIX tools are garbage" thing is still going on, upstart and systemd are the latest symptoms.

n_tassone Avatar
n_tassone:#9197

>>9189
>Are you serious?
Not a counter argument.

>-> The other possible conclusion why you went to krautchan instead of 4chinks, leddit and h4xxornews is that krautchan has far less users and therefore you thought we can't completely dox/ravage/call you out/ban you for trolling.

Funny, because I've posted my language on 4chan, 8chan, and lainchan. I don't use reddit or hackernews. On the other hand, I don't think any of these could dox/ravage me because I'm not 12 and I don't think posting my name and city is a fucking life-threatening hack. The fact that you think smaller communities have a harder time banning people is just ridiculous.

>>On the other hand, it's a string manipulation language, not a byte/char manipulation language, so clearly you don't know what the fuck unicode is.
>>byte/char manipulation
>>he thinks Unicode is an encoding and it's only important for the underlying facility.
>So clearly you don't know what the fuck unicode is. Pro-tip: It's a feature and there is a reason why libiconv is that big beside its encoding support.
Unicode is literally an encoding standard. It seems I'm the only one between the two of us who does know what unicode is.

>- can't one embed and extend the interpreter - in fact, every interpreter that isn't garbage can be
Is this what my German looks like to you? That's the worst pile of broken English I've ever seen in my life.
>- is the syntax still objectively hideous, which is the reason Tcl doesn't have a major share in the scripting language business beside being a payload for Tk (and I really say that as someone with a soft spot for Tcl)
The answer to that depends on your opinions. Do you like LISP's syntax? If not, then you could either kind of like DY because it lets you use function notation instead of S-expressions, or really really hate DeviousYarn because everything is still a function with effectively the exact same syntax. If you do like LISP though, you might enjoy things like the 'cond' or 'condition' function, and other LISP-shit.
>- do you think that string processing languages without any other functions have a purpose these days?
As text editors, yes. That's all I use my language as. It's even in the README.md. "It's a cross between a line editor and a scripting language interpreter."
At it's core, that's all my language seeks to be. It doesn't use any form of bytecode or any of the more professional optimizations you'd see in other scripting languages, like Ruby or Java, and I don't plan to overtake Python in any areas where it's useful.

You seem really defensive for some reason. Maybe it's just the language barrier, but you should really try to calm down and stop being so mad about everything.

donjain Avatar
donjain:#9199

>>9197
>Unicode is literally an encoding standard.
The thought that some programmers actually believe that triggers me more than the rest of your shitposting combined, OP.

seanwashington Avatar
seanwashington:#9201

>>9159
>Denkst du Deutsch programmierer will etwas wie das?

dhooyenga Avatar
dhooyenga:#9202

Harro Landon. It's >>9165-Bernd again. This is my second post in this thread.

Thanks for trying to answer the questions. They were intended as a metaphorical finger onto the sore spot, the answers were insightful.

You have to internalise a couple of things:

1. As it is now, DY is not usable or useful for the vast majority of people who would be interested in using it. After I noticed you being hostile to the undefeated king of text manipulation languages, I set the bar high on purpose; especially question 12 is quite trickier than it initially appears. But because you are just starting out and shared your work at a very early stage, DY cannot pass even the lowest bar of practicability, as the answers to my questions doubtlessly demonstrated. The fact that DY already works for you in the context of text editor programs does not diminish that you still have a lot of work in front of you. Do not be discouraged, but understand that unless you exceed at least that lowest bar, you might earn nothing but dismissal or even scorn from the general audience.

2. Unicode is not only about encoding. In fact the larger part of it are numerous rules and algorithms for dealing with text, e.g. collation and line breaks. >>9189 is rightfully furious that you do not appear to know this.

3. Your attitude against Perl seems to be coloured by Netanel Rubin's propaganda, but this guy is a fraud. There's plenty wrong with Perl – as is with any language of its level of complexity – but none of the things that he or you here claimed are demonstrably true, perhaps with exception of the quote right below. It would serve you well to stop condemning Perl on unjust grounds and change your attitude in order to learn from the language and its success.

Furthermore:

> Perl devs are so fucking incapable that they've been sued because members of their team didn't know how a contract works.
We would like to know what this is about. The phrasing is so vague that it's nigh impossible to find out the details with a search engine. Please tell us the details.

> Normalization* isn't properly implemented yet.
The text corresponding to the footnote is missing here.

> > Then why the fuck […] can't one embed and extend the interpreter - in fact, every interpreter that isn't garbage can be
> That's the worst pile of broken English I've ever seen in my life.
That's an elliptical construction at the end of the sentence. It's not broken, and I had no trouble comprehending the intent.

lanceguyatt Avatar
lanceguyatt:#9203

>>9159
>writes a tool for admins
>posts on /prog/ instead of /c/

ggavrilo Avatar
ggavrilo:#9205

>>9199
It triggers you because you're retarded. That's exactly what Unicode is.
http://www.unicode.org/standard/WhatIsUnicode.html

a_khadeko Avatar
a_khadeko:#9206

>>9202
>1. As it is now, DY is not usable or useful for the vast majority of people who would be interested in using it.
I can't fully disagree with this, since the language, as I've said at least 30 fucking times in this god damn thread, is still a work in progress. It's just a toy language, and I'm asking about things during the development process because I want feedback.

>After I noticed you being hostile to the undefeated king of text manipulation languages, I set the bar high on purpose;
Translation: "After I noticed you bullying the language I fanboy over, I started being hostile."
I hope to god you aren't talking about Perl or Awk, either. They've almost entirely died out, so 'undefeated' isn't something you can even come close to claiming.
If you are talking about Perl, it isn't a text manipulation language. It's a general purpose language.

>2. Unicode is not only about encoding. In fact the larger part of it are numerous rules and algorithms for dealing with text, e.g. collation and line breaks. >>9189 is rightfully furious that you do not appear to know this.

Please see the link in >>9205 . It absolutely is an encoding standard.
What's up with Perl programmers and being so emotional and easily triggered?

>3. Your attitude against Perl seems to be coloured by Netanel Rubin's propaganda, but this guy is a fraud. There's plenty wrong with Perl – as is with any language of its level of complexity – but none of the things that he or you here claimed are demonstrably true, perhaps with exception of the quote right below. It would serve you well to stop condemning Perl on unjust grounds and change your attitude in order to learn from the language and its success.
>none of the things that he or you here claimed are demonstrably true
Now you're just lying, kek.


- Off Topic -
>> Normalization* isn't properly implemented yet.
>The text corresponding to the footnote is missing here.
The asterisk did not denote a footnote. In this situation, I was correcting spelling.

>>> Then why the fuck […] can't one embed and extend the interpreter - in fact, every interpreter that isn't garbage can be
>> That's the worst pile of broken English I've ever seen in my life.
>That's an elliptical construction at the end of the sentence. It's not broken, and I had no trouble comprehending the intent.

I'm not sure who has been teaching German-speakers English, but they're doing a piss poor job. Elliptical constructions tend to shit themselves when you don't use proper verb tenses.
Here - https://www.grammarly.com/handbook/sentences/shifts-writing/2/consistent-verb-tenses/

areus Avatar
areus:#9207

>>9163
>something sane like Lily

Neuste Fäden in diesem Brett: