Krautkanal.com

Veröffentlicht am 2018-01-08 16:42:28 in /int/

/int/ 43385307: Would you volunteer to fight for Eesti if the Russians ...

marciotoledo Avatar
marciotoledo:#43385307

Would you volunteer to fight for Eesti if the Russians invaded it?

I would.

terpimost Avatar
terpimost:#43385315

I would for the Russian side

Bernd Avatar
Bernd:#43385316

Yes

davidsasda Avatar
davidsasda:#43385330

I'd happily pilot a drone to blow up a city of soulless Putin-ite Russians- as long as I can pilot it from a leafy suburb on England.

VinThomas Avatar
VinThomas:#43385332

>>43385307
How swift is your volunteering?

sreejithexp Avatar
sreejithexp:#43385354

no because I'm too berndish

but I would support Estonia with my shitposting on KC

silv3rgvn Avatar
silv3rgvn:#43385365

If Poland had nuclear weapon and 2x bigger army: yes, i think that in such situation Poland should defend Lithuania from Russia. But Latvia and Estonia ain't our sphere of interest, to be honest.

erikdkennedy Avatar
erikdkennedy:#43385370

no. fighting is for 89iqs

vladarbatov Avatar
vladarbatov:#43385371

>>43385354
That's a fight too. Informational warfare is very important.
t. atlantist "russian"

abdots Avatar
abdots:#43385380

No, because I don't want to die.

mat_stevens Avatar
mat_stevens:#43385381

I wouldn't volunteer for the army, I'd prefer some Chechen-tier terrorist group

saarabpreet Avatar
saarabpreet:#43385390

I would fight by giving them my moral support.

carloscrvntsg Avatar
carloscrvntsg:#43385392

>>43385307
> Narva
Cool place I was there. Kind of funny to look at Russia from another country. And then at the other country from Russia. And annoy the border officers with crossing the border few times a day.

aleclarsoniv Avatar
aleclarsoniv:#43385397

>>43385365
2x bigger army than who?

subburam Avatar
subburam:#43385408

Yes.

Tho I love russians, I would do it just to experience combat.

Regards, jaeger medic.

kinday Avatar
kinday:#43385409

>>43385397
Than our current army. We would need around half million of soldiers and 2x more of equipment that we have now to project power up to Smolensk line. And nuclear weapon of course.

oskamaya Avatar
oskamaya:#43385412

Nope because invasion of Estonia would last 15 minutes max

HenryHoffman Avatar
HenryHoffman:#43385427

I would if Latvia invaded it.

dwardt Avatar
dwardt:#43385428

>>43385412
It will end as soon as the first shop with Vana Tallinn is occupied.

irsouza Avatar
irsouza:#43385431

There would be not much to do

I would be sad about it and totally support independent Estonia but it wouldn't make a difference

So I wouldn't risk my life for a lost cause

cat_audi Avatar
cat_audi:#43385437

No, because I don't want to die.[2]
But I will make tredas about shity rushka no the kc

joshjoshmatson Avatar
joshjoshmatson:#43385479

>>43385427
It may happen if Latvia is occupied first.

zacsnider Avatar
zacsnider:#43385519

I would want Poland to be able to defend Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine. Would feel really good to be an empire. So sad that we can't do it, at least for now.

mr_arcadio Avatar
mr_arcadio:#43385554

if you meant to fight for russian side its good, otherwise you're mentally handicapped.

mauriolg Avatar
mauriolg:#43385572

>>43385307
I would donate money to the cause.

When china invades russia ,I will donate to them.Then I will come on kc and watch webms of dying russians.

karsh Avatar
karsh:#43385574

>>43385554
when has fighting for the russian side ever been good? in all of history?

seanwashington Avatar
seanwashington:#43385576

>>43385381
> I'd prefer some Chechen-tier terrorist group

Finns are scary.

_kkga Avatar
_kkga:#43385624

>>43385600
Not really. We know very little about it, to be honest.

doronmalki Avatar
doronmalki:#43385627

>>43385574
better tell us when it wasnt good

antonkudin Avatar
antonkudin:#43385645

I would fight for Estonia when it will invade Russia (again).

shesgared Avatar
shesgared:#43385653

If Russia invaded Estonia, so I'm already fighting somewhere.

carloscrvntsg Avatar
carloscrvntsg:#43385660

>>43385412
I think you're imagining something like this.

Step 1: Russia will move all their units to a big stack on a square next to Estonian border.
Step 2: Russia will attack with all their units.

guischmitt Avatar
guischmitt:#43385672

no, estonia shouldn't even exist

alagoon Avatar
alagoon:#43385683

>>43385660
> Step 2: Russia will attack with all their units.

You may laugh but some strategists in the USA really think that Russia could attack Baltic States with all professional army it has (around 900k soldiers), while leaving all its other borders unprotected, because otherwise Russia couldn't be able to occupy these territories.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-could-invade-the-baltics-845000-troops-what-happens-23894

mrzero158 Avatar
mrzero158:#43385697

>>43385683
lol
taking no chances aren’t they
better prepare well, a tough enemy xD

vicivadeline Avatar
vicivadeline:#43385729

>>43385683
Yes, we'll put all soldiers and all citizens on Estonia.
Fuck russian borders and territory anyway.

(That's autism)

chanpory Avatar
chanpory:#43385737

>>43385479
By Lithuania or Poland?

markmushiva Avatar
markmushiva:#43385743

>>43385672
I thought Suomi and Eesti are friends.

robergd Avatar
robergd:#43385746

>>43385743
we are

freddetastic Avatar
freddetastic:#43385753

>volunteering

jamesmbickerton Avatar
jamesmbickerton:#43385760

>>43385307
Yes

vikashpathak18 Avatar
vikashpathak18:#43385784

Don't worry Estonia, Poland will rescue you. Not many people know but Poland changed its defence strategy few months ago for the first time since 1945. We moved a lot of our troops and strongest units to the Eastern and Central part of Poland, to make them ready to make a fast blitzkrieg counterattack. According to old strategy from years 1999-2016, practically all Poland's army was located near German border to protect Germany in case of hipotetical attack, now the strategy changed radically. Now our defence is fast and massive attack, so if Baltic States are attacked by Russia, we will basically attack Kaliningrad and Belarus, while burning everything with bombs, rockets, tactical nukes and heavy artillery, along with Russian forces. We will stop on the Eastern border of Belarus, and - depending on Russian decision - the conflict will be escalated or not.

herkulano Avatar
herkulano:#43385821

would volunteer to invade :DD

shesgared Avatar
shesgared:#43385960

Why invade if we can hack?

sketi_ndlela Avatar
sketi_ndlela:#43385971

lol no

aluisio_azevedo Avatar
aluisio_azevedo:#43385972

Russia can annex Eesti in 15 seconds.

bouyghajden Avatar
bouyghajden:#43385986

>>43385972
So it would take 5 seconds longer than with Crimea

yehudab Avatar
yehudab:#43385993

>>43385972
Attacking Estland would mean attacking American troops.

yangpeiyuan Avatar
yangpeiyuan:#43386005

>>43385993
The problem is that there is no American troops and bases in Estonia. They come there only on trainings and come back here after finishing them.

canapud Avatar
canapud:#43386058

>>43386005
What's with the multinational battalion battle group? They are based in Tapa.

mylesb Avatar
mylesb:#43386071

>>43386005

Actually, since Russia annexed Crimea, there are NATO troops constantly stationed in Estonia.

kamal_chaneman Avatar
kamal_chaneman:#43386077

>>43386058
Brits, Frogs and the Danish

thomasgeisen Avatar
thomasgeisen:#43386087

>>43386071
NATO - yes. But not American troops. Germanball said smth about American troops

robinlayfield Avatar
robinlayfield:#43386091

i'm not fighting for anyone anymore, i'm too old and it wouldn't get me anything except death or permanent injuries

ryanmclaughlin Avatar
ryanmclaughlin:#43386092

I would volunteer to fight Eesti

urbanjahvier Avatar
urbanjahvier:#43386095

>>43386077
They would still attack NATO troops what would cause a casus foederis.

adriancogliano Avatar
adriancogliano:#43386108

I like how Canada decided to help us after all that cozy co-operation our troops always had with them since 9/11 in sand monkey countries.

woodydotmx Avatar
woodydotmx:#43386111

>>43386095
NATO can only help if there were some aggression to its members.
But seems like Eesti started it, so....

vicivadeline Avatar
vicivadeline:#43386120

>>43385737
By Ukraine.

funwatercat Avatar
funwatercat:#43386129

Baltics is natural territory of the Russian federation. It would be selfish not to join and contribute to the greater Eurasian prosperity.

1markiz Avatar
1markiz:#43386142

>>43386129
Norway is Russian clay too.

iamfelipesouza Avatar
iamfelipesouza:#43386160

>>43386142
No, but Finland is.

seanwashington Avatar
seanwashington:#43386167

>>43385574
GB was Russian ally in WW1 and 2 and against Napoleon.

vigobronx Avatar
vigobronx:#43386169

>>43386108
>cozy co-operation our troops always had with them since 9/11 in sand monkey countries.
Latvija and Anglonada are cozy Unitedstatian lapdogs indeed.

kosmar Avatar
kosmar:#43386193

>>43385653
Is it you on the pic?

alagoon Avatar
alagoon:#43386198

Putin is like Hitler, the same methods:

1) i will only make anschluss of Austria, but i promise that i won't take anything more

2) OK, this time i am serious, i will need only Czechoslovakia, but it is my last demand

3) This time you must believe me, what i need is only to steal ethnically Polish city Gdańsk from Poles, if i do it, there will be peace in Europe

- No, no, mr Hitler! Third time lucky!

marcusgorillius Avatar
marcusgorillius:#43386216

>>43386169
Anglos are the only ones with power in Europe that actually helped Latvians through history never fucking us over.

Cant say that to any other European country that was powerful in this region at any point.

So its only logical that we like them.

kamal_chaneman Avatar
kamal_chaneman:#43386240

>>43386198
Danzig corridor was obviously German by right. Czechoslovakia, not so much.

vladyn Avatar
vladyn:#43386248

torn on the issue, a lot of eesti posters are butthurt /pol/ type shits and there's this particular annoying eesti /pol/ shitposter, who can go to gulag for all i care.
but there used to be c&a eesti posters as well on /int/. also the baltics are rightful german clay :/

anaami Avatar
anaami:#43386254

>>43386240

Fuck off, nazi. Gdańsk was always a Polish city, since ancient times. It is really a sad story that it had to be leveled to the ground, so our archeologists after 1945 could find evidence on the ancient Polish roots of this city.

thehacker Avatar
thehacker:#43386256

>>43386216
>Anglos are the only ones with power in Europe that actually helped Latvians through history never fucking us over.

comedy gold

creartinc Avatar
creartinc:#43386262

>>43386216
Anglos ain't benevolent, if they never fucked you over it's because they either had no interest in exploiting you, or used you as bargaining chips against other cuntries.

anass_hassouni Avatar
anass_hassouni:#43386282

>>43386167
> GB was Russian ally in WW1 and 2 and against Napoleon.

Anglos are people of the sea, they think in category of balance of power. They always support the weak against the strong to create a proper balance of power in Eurasia to prevent some player (or group of players) to become too powerful, and prevent them from dominating whole continent.

That's why Anglos will always support CEE region against Germany and Russia, because CEE is weakest in this scheme of power, but at the same time they could support Russia against China, if Russia was smart enough to realize who is its real enemy.

emileboudeling Avatar
emileboudeling:#43386283

Do I get to kill people?

markmushiva Avatar
markmushiva:#43386286

I'd volunteer to fight for russia.

greenbes Avatar
greenbes:#43386288

>>43386283
Not people just russians.

iamglimy Avatar
iamglimy:#43386292

>>43386286
So nothing changed since bolshevik revolution

thehacker Avatar
thehacker:#43386296

>>43386288
How russophobic.

mefahad Avatar
mefahad:#43386307

>>43386292
Wrong. Jews never did any fighting in the Bolshevik revolution.

breehype Avatar
breehype:#43386317

>>43386307
True. They only gave orders.

keyuri85 Avatar
keyuri85:#43386318

>>43386307

This. Anybody who claims otherwise is an antisemite.

stephcoue Avatar
stephcoue:#43386337

>>43386282
Allahs babahs are the real enemy. China does not have to conquer Russia. They simply buy us in a while.

illyzoren Avatar
illyzoren:#43386365

>>43386260
Woah, new metodichkas! And now even for english speaking auditory. I haven`t seen this ones before.

aaronstump Avatar
aaronstump:#43386380

>>43385330
> pilot a drone
Pussy.

fluidbrush Avatar
fluidbrush:#43386471

>>43386260
> Taras working on Moscow building

dwardt Avatar
dwardt:#43386676

I don't speak any Estonian.
I do speak some Russian.
Take that for what you will.

vickyshits Avatar
vickyshits:#43386755

Please protect ;_;

madhan4uu Avatar
madhan4uu:#43386797

>>43386755
Why? Don't you want to become part of the biggest country that will pump a lot of money into your republic, build modern industry, schools, hospitals and ports?

syswarren Avatar
syswarren:#43386809

>>43386471
> russia
> building anything
you don't even have money to pay pensions.

starburst1977 Avatar
starburst1977:#43386823

>>43386193
Me on left

emileboudeling Avatar
emileboudeling:#43386826

>>43386809
A reminder: zero meters of bridge are built!
http://most.krym.es/

stushona Avatar
stushona:#43386830

Would volunteer for Russians.

stushona Avatar
stushona:#43386842

>>43386830
And then you will volunteer for Russians in war vs Germany?

buleswapnil Avatar
buleswapnil:#43386844

>>43386842
>Germans
>fighting anyone
Nice try.

trueblood_33 Avatar
trueblood_33:#43386852

>>43386830
You have had years to volunteer for Russians in a war already. What's holding you back?

puzik Avatar
puzik:#43386861

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3aW1m-d2Yw

saulihirvi Avatar
saulihirvi:#43386868

>>43386797
we already have all that and more, they will just take our oil shale and kill our culture and language like they did with the other finno ugris

rahmeen Avatar
rahmeen:#43386879

>>43386826
Also Black Sea fleet will be out of Crimea in exactly zero days:
http://flot2017.com/

350d Avatar
350d:#43386880

>>43386797
kcmod-tier post

wiljanslofstra Avatar
wiljanslofstra:#43386902

>>43385307
The war will be over before you'll receive your gear. 2-3 days tops.

vladarbatov Avatar
vladarbatov:#43386928

>>43386868
>, they will just take our oil shale and kill our culture and language

Wut? They actually created your culture. Before the USSR, no one ever heard of Estonians and your cities were German-speaking in majority. Russians expelled Germans, gave you Reval and Dorpat and let you rule in this republic.

>we already have all that and more,

What does Estonia produce? I know that in the Soviet era it produced electronic stuff, computers, technology used in space industry. What's left?

>>43386880
You got from Russians way more than Estonians so don't even try to say anything.

i_ganin Avatar
i_ganin:#43386939

>>43386902
>Grozny in 72 hours by using one regiment

silv3rgvn Avatar
silv3rgvn:#43386961

No, war does not belong into the 21st century
It is literally degenerate

falvarad Avatar
falvarad:#43386996

>>43386939
>Crimea in 72 hours by using one regiment

sgaurav_baghel Avatar
sgaurav_baghel:#43387000

>>43386961
We thought same

guischmitt Avatar
guischmitt:#43387001

>>43386939
>Cockhole making jokes after getting into six consequentive encirclements.

polarity Avatar
polarity:#43387017

>>43387001
>Kadyrov is russian hero

hoangloi Avatar
hoangloi:#43387024

>>43387000
You got no war in Crimea, but then you started to chimpout. Since Eesti is wise and Crimea-sized it will not chimpout at all and will get no war.

jehnglynn Avatar
jehnglynn:#43387026

No. I have better things to do.

robinlayfield Avatar
robinlayfield:#43387040

>>43387017
Nadiya Savchenko is ukrainian hero!

hampusmalmberg Avatar
hampusmalmberg:#43387052

No they all must migrate into EU and others gassed

rcass Avatar
rcass:#43387067

I would welcome russians with open arms

eloisem Avatar
eloisem:#43387080

But we never invading we only liberating.

itsracine Avatar
itsracine:#43387188

>>43387080
This, also peacekeeping.

ankitind Avatar
ankitind:#43387202

>>43387188

In 1939 Russia was allied with Third Reich too

xarax Avatar
xarax:#43387251

>>43387202
Poland allied with the 3rd Reich in 1938. So?

seanwashington Avatar
seanwashington:#43387277

>>43387251

It never happened, Russian pig.

turkutuuli Avatar
turkutuuli:#43387288

>>43387277
Don't be so buttdevastated and learn some history

dutchnadia Avatar
dutchnadia:#43387310

>>43387288

You learn history, Russian troll. The only thing i can discuss with russian mongoloids is how many weapon i need to kill them.

degandhi024 Avatar
degandhi024:#43387318

>>43387307
Ever heard of the Munich agreement? Want me to google it for you?

eduardostuart Avatar
eduardostuart:#43387321

>>43387318

Poland didn't sign the Munich Agreement, idiot.

mbilderbach Avatar
mbilderbach:#43387337

>>43387277
monumentum of polish butthurt. jpg

baluli Avatar
baluli:#43387338

>>43387321
But actively participated in the division of Czechoslovakia. Exactly what the USSR did one year later

i_ganin Avatar
i_ganin:#43387370

>>43387277
That's right, Poland only partitioned Czechoslovakia together with Germany.

RussellBishop Avatar
RussellBishop:#43387381

>>43387310
Yep, is butthurt.

areus Avatar
areus:#43387382

>>43387338

Wrong, moron. Our decision about taking Zaolzie was a direct result of the Munich Agreement, not the other way round. Czechs gave up their country to Third Reich without fight with a support of the UK, France and Italy, so in fact Czechs, Brits, Frenchmen, Italians and of course Germans take full responsibility for our decision about Zaolzie. If we didn't take this part of territory, Poles living there would find themselves under German occupation, and we couldn't let it be. The Zaolzie was regained without even one shit fired and with full agreement of Czech government. Not even a single person died during the process. Meanwhile you fucking mongoloids signed a PACT RIBBENTROP-MOLOTOV dividing whole Eurasia on two spheres of influence: nazi one and soviet one. After attacking our country in a brutal way, while killing tens of thousands of civilians and soldiers, you began a campaign of terror that resulted in deportation of 1,2 mln Poles to Siberia and deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

So stop rewriting history by comparing these two things, stupid russian pig.

xravil Avatar
xravil:#43387398

I'd only defend real nations from Russia. Estonians and other eastern European nations are leeches who rely too much on gibsmedats from western Europe.

jajodia_saket Avatar
jajodia_saket:#43387399

>>43387188

>Estonia secceeded illegitimately in 1918

But Soviet Russia signed a treaty acknowledging our independence, how can that be illegitimate? Or do you acknowledge that the word of a Russian is not worth the paper it is printed on?

i_ganin Avatar
i_ganin:#43387401

>>43387382
>i see a robber mugging someone for his wallet
>victim has a watch I always wanted
>i'll use the moment and will snatch the watch
>why others are claiming I participated in robbery?!

ritapetrilli87 Avatar
ritapetrilli87:#43387410

>>43387398
The UK is unable to defend anyone in continental Europe because your army practically doesn't exit. Back then during WW2 you had powerful navy at least (that was useless from our point of view anyway), today you buid aircraft carriers that catch a water.

mshwery Avatar
mshwery:#43387429

I will only defend finland because their meme's have brought me much joy

andina Avatar
andina:#43387434

>>43387399
>But Soviet Russia signed a treaty acknowledging our independence, how can that be illegitimate? Or do you acknowledge that the word of a Russian is not worth the paper it is printed on?
Estonia rejoined USSR in 1940 and signed the necessary papers. There even was no military action back then, so the case is clearer than 1918.

ggavrilo Avatar
ggavrilo:#43387479

>>43385408

I can try and put you in touch with a guy. Medics are always appreciated.

andrewgurylev Avatar
andrewgurylev:#43387500

If NATO got involved I wouldn't have a choice.

salleedesign Avatar
salleedesign:#43387517

>>43385307
No. Everything east of poland belongs to russia tbh

bassamology Avatar
bassamology:#43387530

>>43387434

>Estonia rejoined USSR in 1940 and signed the necessary papers. There even was no military action back then, so the case is clearer than 1918.

Pic related is how that decision was made in our parliament. Does that really seem like unbiased decision-making by the legislative body of an independent state? And the guys standing in a line are Soviet soldiers btw, making sure that the MP's make the "correct" decision.

ademilter Avatar
ademilter:#43387555

>>43387530
Yes, if secession happening after literally war is OK, then accession happening with no war is even more OK. Also if you respect communist decisions about secession treaties, then respect it about rejoining treaties.

i_ganin Avatar
i_ganin:#43387564

>>43387555
>Succession
But Estonia didn't secede from the USSR, they seceded from the Russian Empire.
Why would the USSR care?

a_khadeko Avatar
a_khadeko:#43387573

I see that the Master Rooster arrived and started his dumb roostering of non-stop shitposting of absolute nonsense.

Attempting a discussion with him is like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

karlkanall Avatar
karlkanall:#43387595

>>43387573
Now Eesti understands that comies are even better for Estonia than commie-haters. First will at least recognize ESSR existence.

romanbulah Avatar
romanbulah:#43387606

>>43387564
Did they sign papers with Soviets or with Empire? Also if you respect communists, then respect their decisions. If you consider communists illegitimate, then it's time to return to 1914 borders.

raquelwilson Avatar
raquelwilson:#43387614

Russia pursues Estonia until Estonia catches Russia.

*A man pursues a woman until she can't catch him.

tube_man Avatar
tube_man:#43387648

>>43387555

Basically what happened is that Russia had something that belonged to us (independence), when we wanted to take it back they resisted and tried to fight us. We beat them in that fight and got our independence, with them admitting that they would never try to take it from us again.

Twenty years later, they show up with a huge group of friends and tell us to give it back to them or they will simply beat us up and take it away anyhow. Having no options, we give in.

This is not only completely legitimate and moral according to Russians, but they say we even actively wanted to give away our independence.

fritzronel Avatar
fritzronel:#43387666

>>43387648
>Basically what happened is that Russia had something that belonged to us (independence), when we wanted to take it back they resisted and tried to fight us. We beat them in that fight and got our independence, with them admitting that they would never try to take it from us again.
Now please tell me about ancient Estonian Empire possessing said independence. Would be intredasting to hear.

andrewofficer Avatar
andrewofficer:#43387677

>>43387606
Neither
>In the treaty, Bolshevik Russia ceded the Baltic States to Germany
>Also if you respect communists, then respect their decisions
I don't
> If you consider communists illegitimate, then it's time to return to 1914 borders.
Why? Did you find a rightful heir to the Tsardom?
Otherwise why would the successor to a rebellious faction that killed the lawful ruler have any right to that ruler's land?

kuldarkalvik Avatar
kuldarkalvik:#43387684

>>43385307
No, I would volunteer to restore order in Europe and kick Anglo scum out.

olgary Avatar
olgary:#43387689

>>43387648
>
Basically what happened is that Russia had something that belonged to us (independence), when we wanted to take it back they resisted and tried to fight us. We beat them in that fight and got our independence, with them admitting that they would never try to take it from us again.
tl;dr you stole clay from us using war as a tool for it.

wiljanslofstra Avatar
wiljanslofstra:#43387710

>>43387595
Why do you imagine I (or for that matter anyone) wants to talk with you. You enter with your rapid fire galore of shitposts with only nonsense and talking points designed for retaining vatnik retards in the flock. There is absolutely no value for normal people in talking with you.

Go crawl back to the hole you were excreted from.

steynviljoen Avatar
steynviljoen:#43387722

>>43387277

aio___ Avatar
aio___:#43387728

>>43387677
>>In the treaty, Bolshevik Russia ceded the Baltic States to Germany
And later in a treaty it returned them and made soviet republics.
>I don't
Then I don't respect 1918 treaties with breakaway clay.
>Why? Did you find a rightful heir to the Tsardom?
Well, by now many soviet decisions are respected. But later when decommunization will happen, decisions about stealing clay will be reverted.

rohan30993 Avatar
rohan30993:#43387738

>>43387710
>Why do you imagine I (or for that matter anyone) wants to talk with you.
Because you do it just now. If after some discussion you get mad and transform it into tantrum - well, that's your problem.

christauziet Avatar
christauziet:#43387766

>>43387666

>Now please tell me about ancient Estonian Empire possessing said independence. Would be intredasting to hear.

>you have to have an empire to be independent

>>43387689

>you stole clay from us using war as a tool for it.

Are you seriously trying to say we "stole" the land that we had been living on for thousands of years before the Russian Empire conquered it?

_vojto Avatar
_vojto:#43387795

>>43387399
>But Soviet Russia signed a treaty acknowledging our independence, how can that be illegitimate?


Soviet Russia is not legitimate political formation, it is terrorist formation. Imagine Kurdish independence approved by ISIS?

If Russia recognizes the USSR as an international occupation of the Russian people, we can have casus belli.



Basically The British, Americans, Germans will fight for the country whose independence is based on the consent of the Communists.

From the standpoint of free Russia, this independence is a one-sided separatism with the support of an international communist terrorist occupation

posterjob Avatar
posterjob:#43387799

>>43387648
>Russia had something that belonged to us (independence)
Daily reminder that Governorate of Estonia, Governorate of Livonia and Courland Governorate are limitrophe non-countries.

iamkeithmason Avatar
iamkeithmason:#43387811

>>43387766
Now please tell me about that Estonian pre-1917 independence which you did not just "took", but even "took back"
>Are you seriously trying to say we "stole" the land that we had been living on for thousands of years before the Russian Empire conquered it?
If your argument is "if some small piece of a country contains distinct people, and they want to get independence, they have full right to do so and territorial integrity should not be respected", then we can discuss it.

doooon Avatar
doooon:#43387835

>>43387799
Make Terra Mariana Great Again

katiemdaly Avatar
katiemdaly:#43387849

>>43387728
>Well, by now many soviet decisions are respected. But later when decommunization will happen, decisions about stealing clay will be reverted.
This has nothing to do with my question.
The USSR of course had no right to any of the territory it held, it simply did so through force. The Russian Federation has no right to any of the Russian Empire's territory, but it did retain some control of the USSR's territory through agreement.

karsh Avatar
karsh:#43387858

>>43387799
It's just amazing how 300,000 nations were absorbed for 200 years by the largest nation in Europe and completely preserved their national self-identification, Russia is a true prison of nations.

marshallchen_ Avatar
marshallchen_:#43387863

>>43387849
>The USSR of course had no right to any of the territory it held, it simply did so through force. The Russian Federation has no right to any of the Russian Empire's territory, but it did retain some control of the USSR's territory through agreement.
And so did all other post-soviet or post-empire countries. If we'll get deeper that every country ever.

mwarkentin Avatar
mwarkentin:#43387875

I would but only on a theoretical level because I wouldn't want to die in a war that would last days.

mauriolg Avatar
mauriolg:#43387883

>>43387863
Yes.
Meaning that you have absolutely no right to their territory.

bighanddesign Avatar
bighanddesign:#43387887

Why bother? By the time I got through basic the war would be over.

alek_djuric Avatar
alek_djuric:#43387897

>>43387883
Yes, and so are they. Meaning that if they keep it, good luck to them. If we'll retake it, good luck to us.

husamyousf Avatar
husamyousf:#43387898

>WILLINGLY spending months if not years occupying Russia
Sure it would be neat parading first world stuff in 4th world shitholes, but holy fuck can you imagine having to leave there that long?

suprb Avatar
suprb:#43387900

Nah. I like estonia but I'm not lifting a finger for america.

terpimost Avatar
terpimost:#43387901

>>43387858
>have no culture that can assimilate people
>Look how nice we are , nobody wanted to become russin!

safrankov Avatar
safrankov:#43387926

>>43387901
>irish diminishing due to assimilation
Q: How many potatoes are needed to kill an Irishman?
A: Zero

sgaurav_baghel Avatar
sgaurav_baghel:#43387952

>>43387898
No, I can't imagine enduring the life in the US for that long.

zacsnider Avatar
zacsnider:#43387980

>>43387849
>The Russian Federation has no right to any of the Russian Empire's territory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Provisional_Government

We had a republic with real elections before the red fanatics blew up the country

And Estonia, Finland, Poland, and other countries were part of this republic with this elected government

And the government chosen by the parliament did not sign any papers on independence

We're talking about a bunch of red fanatics who had no legitimacy for signing the independence of Finland, the Baltic and Poland. Russians on the Int make a big mistake defending the Soviet legacy, a real diplomatic victory is on the full destruction of the Soviet heritage.

yassiryahya Avatar
yassiryahya:#43387981

>>43387952
This would work if I was vague but I clearly stated the problem would be "occupying russia"

layerssss Avatar
layerssss:#43387989

>>43387795

>Soviet Russia is not legitimate political formation, it is terrorist formation. Imagine Kurdish independence approved by ISIS?

>From the standpoint of free Russia, this independence is a one-sided separatism with the support of an international communist terrorist occupation

The Russian Federation has declared itself to be the official successor of the USSR. So unless you view the Russian Federation as an illegitimate political formation as well, you're wrong.

>>43387811

Perhaps it would be more fitting to use "freedom" instead of "independence" here, but I wanted to refrain from it at first in order not to sound like a burger and you're probably just nitpicking here.

>If your argument is "if some small piece of a country contains distinct people, and they want to get independence, they have full right to do so and territorial integrity should not be respected", then we can discuss it.

My original point was that we did not "illegitimately secede" from Russia, since the Russian government recognized our independence. But basically it does indeed boil down to the right to self-determination, so we can of course discuss it.

amboy00 Avatar
amboy00:#43387995

>>43387980
Did the Tsar approve of this? Otherwise it isn't any more legitimate.

carlyson Avatar
carlyson:#43388013

>>43387989
>The Russian Federation has declared itself to be the official successor of the USSR. So unless you view the Russian Federation as an illegitimate political formation as well, you're wrong.
That's why we recognize if not Estonia belonging to us, then at least ESSR existence legitimacy. But if we'll consider full decommunization, then both ESSR and independent Estonia legitimacy will be put under question.

joshjoshmatson Avatar
joshjoshmatson:#43388027

>>43387981
You response would have worked if it wasn't coming from an 56% occupant.

p_kosov Avatar
p_kosov:#43388039

>>43388027
Why are you being so rude to me? Are you that vatnik """"""""""""german"""""""""""?

sementiy Avatar
sementiy:#43388045

>>43387989
>My original point was that we did not "illegitimately secede" from Russia, since the Russian government recognized our independence.
Argument went basically
>Independent Estonia is legitimate because it signed a treaty in 1918
>Then ESSR is legitimate because it signed treaty in 1940
>But it did it because of force!
>1918 one was because of force too, even larger force because in 1918 war happened and in 1940 no war

layerssss Avatar
layerssss:#43388057

>>43387989
>The Russian Federation has declared itself to be the official successor of the USSR.

RF is not free and not legitimate country ruled by soviet political class and oppressing russian people, we will talk after the restoration of our independence from the international occupation which continues.

puzik Avatar
puzik:#43388071

>>43387995

>Did the Tsar approve of this?

ofc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Constitution_of_1906

robergd Avatar
robergd:#43388075

>>43388039
Because get the fuck out of Germany.

arashmanteghi Avatar
arashmanteghi:#43388082

>>43387989
>But basically it does indeed boil down to the right to self-determination, so we can of course discuss it.
Ok then, we can theoretically accept full domination of self-determination over other principles. But then one shouldn't be upset if every tiny part of the country will want to become a country on its own.

marcusgorillius Avatar
marcusgorillius:#43388088

>>43388045
> 1918 one was because of force too

How so?

Bernd Avatar
Bernd:#43388092

>>43388075
I would like the occupation of Germany to end and the last legitimate government (3. Reich) to be reinstated
I can't cause this to happen though

woodydotmx Avatar
woodydotmx:#43388103

>>43388082
Who is upset by that?
I think the US should be balkanized, Russia should be balkanized, Scotland should be independent, etc.

safrankov Avatar
safrankov:#43388123

>>43385371
no, it isn't.

information warfare is good at swaying the neutral. but those for or against already have their minds made up - and won't budge either way.

there are very few neutral people left when it comes to russia, or even putin. your job is largely pointless at this point.

markmushiva Avatar
markmushiva:#43388129

>>43388088
Heard about WWI, war in Baltics and civil war?

heikopaiko Avatar
heikopaiko:#43388135

Srsly? 172 replies?

slaterjohn Avatar
slaterjohn:#43388142

>>43388092
There is afaik some group in Germany which consider themselves legitimate successors of pre-WWI Germany.

tereshenkov Avatar
tereshenkov:#43388147

>>43388142
The Kaiser has an heir IIRC

rahmeen Avatar
rahmeen:#43388148

>>43388129
Yes. How it proves that secession of Estonia was illegitimate?

Chakintosh Avatar
Chakintosh:#43388166

>>43388148
Why was it legitimate? Because of the 1918 treaty? Then ESSR is legitimate because of 1940 treaties.

oscarowusu Avatar
oscarowusu:#43388183

>>43388013

>That's why we recognize if not Estonia belonging to us, then at least ESSR existence legitimacy. But if we'll consider full decommunization, then both ESSR and independent Estonia legitimacy will be put under question.

You would also basically put 100 years of your own history under question as well then. Or do you really believe that Russia will restore a monarchy and declare everything between then and 1918 to be illegitimate?

>>43388045

Is it really so hard to understand that "force" has no moral value of its own, but that it rather depends on how it's used?

Let's construct a very lifelike scenario so you could understand this:

>some bydlo steals your cellphone from you
>you go and demand it back
>he doesn't want to give it to you and attacks you
>you fight back, beat him up and reclaim possession of your cellphone
>some days later, he gangs up on you with his fellow gopniks and orders you to give him your cellphone or they will beat you up and take it
>since you are vastly outnumbered, you give it to him

Is he now the rightful owner of your cellphone because no physical violence was used in the second encounter?

donjain Avatar
donjain:#43388186

>>43388166
You keep saying that as if it's true

falvarad Avatar
falvarad:#43388193

>>43385371

>t. atlantist "russian"

Poland, Baltic, Ukraine exist by Lenin will and he is not legitimate ruler, he signed these independence of this non countries to stabilize his power and continue the terror of the Russian people.

These territories were captured from other empires on the blood of Russian people in the Romanov army and belong to the Russian people.


t. democratic russian

Shriiiiimp Avatar
Shriiiiimp:#43388195

>>43385307
I think with current situation the better question is if you would volunteer to fight for Eesti if niggers and arabs invaded it
hint: they are doing it right now
Every day you walk around you see more and more of those apes, if this pace continues i'd rather see russia invade us than continue with this EU bullshit

hammedk Avatar
hammedk:#43388210

>>43388183
>You would also basically put 100 years of your own history under question as well then. Or do you really believe that Russia will restore a monarchy and declare everything between then and 1918 to be illegitimate?
You consider half-century of your history illegitimate because you find it beneficial. If it will turn beneficial for us to declare USSR fully or partially illegitimate, then why not do it? We'll say we were Empire all that time!
But by now we are recognizing USSR decisions. Including 1940's clay accession decisions.

buleswapnil Avatar
buleswapnil:#43388233

>>43388183
>your scenario
Here is a shorter scenario
>some bydlo fights with you while you are ill and weak and steals your phone (1918 wars and clay loss)
>later you get stronger
>so you come to the bydlo and look at him threateningly (1940)
>he understands everything and returns the phone
>later he complains about threatening look but prefers to forget about fights before

mugukamil Avatar
mugukamil:#43388244

fuk mongol/muslim roosian federacion

guischmitt Avatar
guischmitt:#43388300

>>43388195
I was about to post something similar, so I commend you for helping my point out by yourself.

rahmeen Avatar
rahmeen:#43388305

>>43388210

The difference is that we never recognized the occupation as legitimate, whereas you have recognized the legitimacy of the USSR for over 25 years after its fall. It's gonna take a lot of mental gymnastics to simply go "no, forget about all that, the czar was right all along".

>>43388233

>starting the scenario with Estonia attacking Russia

So you believe Estonia is an integral part of Russia and us gaining independence was an attack on your territorial sovereignty? By what divine right do we belong to you? And furthermore, even if you believe that, why do you care about it nowadays? After all, vatniks always assure us that Russia has nothing to gain from Estonia.

joynalrab Avatar
joynalrab:#43388313

russia gowno jest

splashing75 Avatar
splashing75:#43388379

>>43388305
>you

Who is "you"? we don't have real elections and free media and ruled my members of commie party of USSR

people who sit in the Kremlin for the last 25 years are not legitimate, these are Soviet criminals

oscarowusu Avatar
oscarowusu:#43388450

>>43388305
>The difference is that we never recognized the occupation as legitimate
I am quite sure that during all existence of ESSR it worked by Soviet laws and officially recognized own legitimacy. It changed after some time - but so can our recognition of soviet deeds if we'll find it beneficial.

polarity Avatar
polarity:#43388470

>>43388195
>if you would volunteer to fight for Eesti if niggers and arabs invaded it
>if you would volunteer to fight for Eesti if snowniggers invaded it

snowshade Avatar
snowshade:#43388496

>>43385307

America yes

adhiardana Avatar
adhiardana:#43388501

Of course.

xspirits Avatar
xspirits:#43388512

>>43388305
Can you show on graph in >>43387799 when you consider the "phone" belonging to "you"
>So you believe Estonia is an integral part of Russia and us gaining independence was an attack on your territorial sovereignty?
Yes, it was an attack on territorial sovereignity by definition. Because once Estonia was a part of Russia (later USSR), and now it is not.
>By what divine right do we belong to you?
Ok, maybe ever piece of clay in the world should self-determine then.
>And furthermore, even if you believe that, why do you care about it nowadays? After all, vatniks always assure us that Russia has nothing to gain from Estonia.
Some want to grab full Estonia, some want to grab Russian-populated parts, some don't want to grab clay, but definitely don't want to be accused in "occupation". Also there are other clay questions beside Estonia, so we can make analogues (Crimea and Donbass for example).

vikashpathak18 Avatar
vikashpathak18:#43388519

>>43388501
>meme-flag
>meme-movement
Well memed.

chatyrko Avatar
chatyrko:#43388534

>>43388379

"you" is the Russian state and it would be pretty hard to construct some arguments that in addition to the USSR, 25 years of the Russian Federation have been illegitimate as well.

>>43388450

>I am quite sure that during all existence of ESSR it worked by Soviet laws and officially recognized own legitimacy. It changed after some time - but so can our recognition of soviet deeds if we'll find it beneficial.

Of course the ESSR worked by Soviet laws, but those were imposed illegitimately. During the whole occupation, we had a working government in exile, as well as a president in exile. Do you have some kind of a czar in exile that has carried on the continuity of the Russian Empire?

shoaib253 Avatar
shoaib253:#43388608

>>43388534
You declared 50 years of your existence illegitimate, right? That does not mean you destroyed everything built in ESSR. Instead you took things you considered good, and declared some stuff illegitimate when it suited you.

mandalareopens Avatar
mandalareopens:#43388655

>>43388534
>Russian Federation have been illegitimate as well.


Russian Federation based on the RSFSR and RSFSR is invented by one party dictature of people who commit several crimes against humanity and were elected by none.

And current ruling class and current leader from KGB and KGB commit many crimes against humanity like artifital holodomores, GULags, 1937, etc, SS tier organization.

So, what is your point?

artcalvin Avatar
artcalvin:#43388664

>>43388512

>Can you show on graph in >>43387799 when you consider the "phone" belonging to "you"

Yes, it's at the very beginning, but only a small part of it can be seen on that graph. From Wikipedia:

> it is often maintained that speakers of early Uralic languages related to modern Estonian had arrived in what is now Estonia by about 5,000 years ago.
>Living in the same area for more than 5,000 years would put the ancestors of Estonians among the oldest permanent inhabitants in Europe.

>Yes, it was an attack on territorial sovereignity by definition. Because once Estonia was a part of Russia (later USSR), and now it is not.

Was it an attack on the territorial integrity of Sweden when you conquered these lands from them in 1710? Do you think that the political map of the world was "finished" in 1917 and no further changes were necessary?

>Ok, maybe ever piece of clay in the world should self-determine then.

I had the feeling we were talking about nations, not simply pieces of land. Why does it seem that Russians think that land of itself has some intrinsic value? I mean sure, you need land for a country to exist, but simply adding more land to it won't always make it wealthier. Case in point: Russia, the largest country in the world.

>Some want to grab full Estonia, some want to grab Russian-populated parts, some don't want to grab clay, but definitely don't want to be accused in "occupation". Also there are other clay questions beside Estonia, so we can make analogues (Crimea and Donbass for example).

But why? What do Russians stand to gain from this?

velagapati Avatar
velagapati:#43388665

>>43388534
>During the whole occupation, we had a working government in exile, as well as a president in exile. Do you have some kind of a czar in exile that has carried on the continuity of the Russian Empire?
That's technicalities. For example there are some people which claim pre-WWI Germany still legitimate, but they will succeed only if some powerful force will support them. Same with government-in-exiles- they succeed if country hosting them succeeds.
About us: we can indeed declare Empire legitimate. Or we can declare 1917 republic legitimate and the rest with all clay loss illegitimate. Whatever will be benefical for us should happen.

exevil Avatar
exevil:#43388689

>>43388664
>Yes, it's at the very beginning
Talking about states and then linking to some ancient tribes isn't a sound argument. If for example Neanderhtals lived there before, it says nothing about current Neanderthalia legitimacy.

ankitind Avatar
ankitind:#43388730

>>43388664
>Was it an attack on the territorial integrity of Sweden when you conquered these lands from them in 1710? Do you think that the political map of the world was "finished" in 1917 and no further changes were necessary?
Guess you can say it about every war. About it being finished in 1917 -p orbably it was not finished in 1917, was not finished in 1940 and isn't finished now.
>I had the feeling we were talking about nations, not simply pieces of land.
Some parts of Empire were populated by Estonians, some parts of Estonia are populated by Russians. Pieces of land usually contain some nation on them.
>But why? What do Russians stand to gain from this?
Gain from clay? Some consider it valuable (or rightfully Russian).
Gain from Russian-populated clay? Some consider them abused or having the right to self-determination.
Gain from ending occupation talks? Some consider such claims as insulting and threatening to us.

kreativosweb Avatar
kreativosweb:#43388756

>>43388608

>You declared 50 years of your existence illegitimate, right? That does not mean you destroyed everything built in ESSR. Instead you took things you considered good, and declared some stuff illegitimate when it suited you.

We declared the occupation to be illegitimate, not our existence. The Estonian government continued its existence in exile and reclaimed control of the country in 1991.

>>43388655

Going by your logic, who would be the legitimate ruler of Russia at the moment? Or do you think that Russians are unfit to govern themselves and the land should be split up among its neighbors or something?

>>43388665

>That's technicalities. For example there are some people which claim pre-WWI Germany still legitimate, but they will succeed only if some powerful force will support them.

What people? I haven't ever heard of this and I doubt this movement has any chance of success. One can claim all sorts of things, Mongolia could also technically claim most of Russia, but that's obviously not going to happen.

>About us: we can indeed declare Empire legitimate. Or we can declare 1917 republic legitimate and the rest with all clay loss illegitimate. Whatever will be benefical for us should happen.

How can you do that when there is no continuity? There has been no one to carry on those governments, the link to them is long-gone. It would be like taking a random stick and lighting it from a match and calling it the Olympic fire.

aluisio_azevedo Avatar
aluisio_azevedo:#43388817

>>43388756


>Going by your logic, who would be the legitimate ruler of Russia at the moment?
>There has been no one to carry on those governments,

Russian people, representation is a secondary issue, you do not need any connection for proclaiming the restoration of a parliamentary republic where power belongs to the people.

joshclark17 Avatar
joshclark17:#43388833

>>43388756
>We declared the occupation to be illegitimate, not our existence. The Estonian government continued its existence in exile and reclaimed control of the country in 1991.
We can do the same: declare USSR illegitimate without destroying good Soviet stuff, but cancelling bad communist decisions.
>Going by your logic, who would be the legitimate ruler of Russia at the moment? Or do you think that Russians are unfit to govern themselves and the land should be split up among its neighbors or something?
There are a lot of possibilities. For example, make some Romanov figurehead monarch. Or declare 1917 republic legitimate and redo some form of Constituent Assembly. Government can also stay mostly the same - after all Estonians are ruled mostly by people born in ESSR.

>What people? I haven't ever heard of this and I doubt this movement has any chance of success. One can claim all sorts of things, Mongolia could also technically claim most of Russia, but that's obviously not going to happen.
Yes, that's why such claims can succeed only due to a power. Estonia 1918 independence succeeded due to war. 1940 accession succeeded due to USSR gaining power. 1991 succeeded due to Cold War end. Reaccession of Estonia (or some part of Estonia) may happen due to strong Russia nearby (happened with Ukraine).
>How can you do that when there is no continuity? There has been no one to carry on those governments, the link to them is long-gone. It would be like taking a random stick and lighting it from a match and calling it the Olympic fire.
If you managed to claim that you are rightful successor to first republic and 50 years of ESSR don't count, then we can do it too.

Bernd Avatar
Bernd:#43388837

>>43388730

>Guess you can say it about every war. About it being finished in 1917 -p orbably it was not finished in 1917, was not finished in 1940 and isn't finished now.

If you agree to that logic, then I can admit that politics ultimately comes down to who has the most power. You took the land from Sweden in 1710 because you were more powerful, we gained independence in 1918 because we were more powerful and you conquered us in 1940 because you were more powerful again. But if you agree to such a power-based worldview, it is very deceptive to try to coat it in some high and mighty "righteous" rhetoric.

>Some parts of Empire were populated by Estonians, some parts of Estonia are populated by Russians. Pieces of land usually contain some nation on them.

The difference being that some nations already have a state of their own and some don't.

>Gain from clay? Some consider it valuable (or rightfully Russian).

Who are these "some"? All I hear from the Russian side is that we produce nothing of value here and Russia has enough land as it is, so we have nothing to be paranoid about and should simply leave NATO.

>Gain from Russian-populated clay? Some consider them abused or having the right to self-determination.

But you see, they have the option of going to their homeland if they feel abused or want self-determination. They already have a country, Estonians in 1918 didn't.

>Gain from ending occupation talks? Some consider such claims as insulting and threatening to us.

Well you can't really deny that we were occupied and it's not like this topic is frequently talked about in Estonia that you should consider it insulting. Maybe it's often topical in Russian media though, I wouldn't know. And how exactly can it be considered threatening?

iamglimy Avatar
iamglimy:#43388897

>>43388837
>I can admit that politics ultimately comes down to who has the most power

That is russian tier barbarian logic, my congratulations, you recognized that the holy Europeans-altantists are don't care about law when it is beneficial to them.


/thread

terpimost Avatar
terpimost:#43388931

>>43388166
Because it was voluntary and the Russian Empire was not exist by that time.

subburam Avatar
subburam:#43388957

I don't really see much fighting for in the future from either side.

Even if "we" will invade it, they'll pretty much just suck and it and choose to wait it out and other countries will sit beside and express concerns. Volunteers or "volunteers" will be killed bretty quickly without support.

Estonia tho is even less important than Cockhlaine, that gives virtually no reason to do anything with it.

andrewgurylev Avatar
andrewgurylev:#43388972

>>43388817

>you do not need any connection for proclaiming the restoration of a parliamentary republic where power belongs to the people.

That's true, but this would only apply internally. You can't simply annex neighboring countries because you decided to change your form of government.

>>43388833

>We can do the same: declare USSR illegitimate without destroying good Soviet stuff, but cancelling bad communist decisions.

But then you would also have to declare that the Russian Federation has illegitimately recognized the USSR for over 25 years for some reason.

>There are a lot of possibilities. For example, make some Romanov figurehead monarch. Or declare 1917 republic legitimate and redo some form of Constituent Assembly. Government can also stay mostly the same - after all Estonians are ruled mostly by people born in ESSR.

Are there even any capable people alive that belong to the Romanov lineage? And the 1917 republic was also the result of a revolution, can they be considered legitimate if you say the communists were not?

>Yes, that's why such claims can succeed only due to a power. Estonia 1918 independence succeeded due to war. 1940 accession succeeded due to USSR gaining power. 1991 succeeded due to Cold War end. Reaccession of Estonia (or some part of Estonia) may happen due to strong Russia nearby (happened with Ukraine).

Yes, no arguing here. Ultimately, whoever has power does what he wants and uses whatever arguments are convenient for him to justify his actions. But that is somewhat out of the scope of this discussion.

>If you managed to claim that you are rightful successor to first republic and 50 years of ESSR don't count, then we can do it too.

But you see, we had always been saying that the ESSR was illegitimate. You would have to create this argument pretty much out of thin air and then spread it to the masses, who probably wouldn't want the last 100 years to be declared null and void.

subburam Avatar
subburam:#43388974

>>43388931
It did. Illegitimate USSR proclamations mean nothing, same as with seccession.
Legally it was against the law.
It's just another jungle law made obvious.

vj_demien Avatar
vj_demien:#43388978

>>43388931
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Provisional_Government

And who is need empire? we had elected parliament.

ryanmclaughlin Avatar
ryanmclaughlin:#43389006

>>43388897

>That is russian tier barbarian logic, my congratulations, you recognized that the holy Europeans-altantists are don't care about law when it is beneficial to them.

That is simply how life is. The West tries to keep to the laws a bit more than others, but that might be either because it doesn't need to use warfare when it can use other means or because we simply don't know about all their wrongdoings.

Don't pretend that every single country doesn't operate like this, Russia more so than most others.

franciscoamk Avatar
franciscoamk:#43389010

>>43388837
>If you agree to that logic, then I can admit that politics ultimately comes down to who has the most power. You took the land from Sweden in 1710 because you were more powerful, we gained independence in 1918 because we were more powerful and you conquered us in 1940 because you were more powerful again. But if you agree to such a power-based worldview, it is very deceptive to try to coat it in some high and mighty "righteous" rhetoric.
Yes, the alternative, is to sign treaties and if you sign it, don't try to declare them bad later. Just as you did with 1940 treaty. But if you can do it with 1940, we can do it with 1918.
>The difference being that some nations already have a state of their own and some don't.
If we will give your Saremaa island for True 100% Pure Estonian Nation State but annex the rest of Estonia, would you be pleased? You will still have nation state then.
>Who are these "some"? All I hear from the Russian side is that we produce nothing of value here and Russia has enough land as it is, so we have nothing to be paranoid about and should simply leave NATO.
That's hardly a consensus. Also if you consider Russian-populated parts as money drain and political instability source, why not free them?
>But you see, they have the option of going to their homeland if they feel abused or want self-determination. They already have a country, Estonians in 1918 didn't.
Look at Saaremaa argument. Also such a threats may end like Crimean case did.
>Well you can't really deny that we were occupied and it's not like this topic is frequently talked about in Estonia that you should consider it insulting. Maybe it's often topical in Russian media though, I wouldn't know. And how exactly can it be considered threatening?
Because, again, if you consider 1940 illegitimate to gain political bonuses, then we can do the same with 1918. Otherwise try not to be hostile.

bouyghajden Avatar
bouyghajden:#43389040

>>43388974
>>43388978
The statehood of Russia was based on Tsar and mutual agreements between the provinces over which he ruled and him - that's called monarchy. When the Tsar was murdered by the bolsheviks - Russian state ceased to exist as well as obligations of Estonia to keep loyalty to it.

> Illegitimate USSR proclamations mean nothing

I agree. 1940 treaty falls into this category.

n1ght_coder Avatar
n1ght_coder:#43389052

>>43388978
>>43388974

The treaty itself by which Russia recognized our independence was signed in 1920, long after the Provisional Government was dissolved. And we were at war with specifically with the communists, not with Russia in general, because it was the Red Army that invaded us when we declared independence. We actually fought on the same side as some of the White forces who tried to defeat communism.

It's pretty sad, really, since Estonians and Russians got along very well before the commies took over Russia. We didn't even originally plan to declare ourselves independent, we only wanted to be more autonomous like Finland, but history went otherwise.

amboy00 Avatar
amboy00:#43389053

>>43388972
>But then you would also have to declare that the Russian Federation has illegitimately recognized the USSR for over 25 years for some reason.
Yes, for some reason. If necessary, it will be of no problem to find a sufficient excuse.
>Are there even any capable people alive that belong to the Romanov lineage? And the 1917 republic was also the result of a revolution, can they be considered legitimate if you say the communists were not?
There is still Romanov House and it still has official heir.
If results of revolution are illegitimate, then so is Estonian independence because it was a result of said revolution.
>But you see, we had always been saying that the ESSR was illegitimate.
No, during 50 years of your existence you officially considered ESSR legitimate and lived by its laws. You had some groups abroad claiming otherwise, but as shown before, there are myriad of different groups claiming things and they succeed only due to power supporting them.

Bernd Avatar
Bernd:#43389069

>>43389040
>I agree. 1940 treaty falls into this category.
So is 1918 and others.

murrayswift Avatar
murrayswift:#43389111

>>43388972
>You can't simply annex neighboring countries because you decided to change your form of government.

You can if your deny their legitimacy

chatyrko Avatar
chatyrko:#43389130

If Russia tries something we will destroy them

aaronstump Avatar
aaronstump:#43389153

>>43389130
plz no bully

devankoshal Avatar
devankoshal:#43389161

>>43389069
> So is 1918 and others.

1918 had nothing to do with the USSR. It was declaration of independence in the conditions when the Russian Czar was murdered and the Russian state ceased to exist.

otozk Avatar
otozk:#43389185

>>43389161
Then what morally prevents us to grab Estonia if we'll have a physical possibility to do so?

subburam Avatar
subburam:#43389237

Provisional Committee of the State Duma (Russian: Временный Комитет Государственной Думы) was a special government body established on March 12, 1917 (27 February O.S.) by the Fourth State Duma deputies at the outbreak of the Russian February Revolution.

This was the only legitimate power chosen by the Russian people on fair elections

I did not see their signature on Estonian independence, this is a one-sided separatism

sames about cockholes, mambets and eblorussians

Nobody cares about the signature of the insane syphilitic who arrived from Switzerland and shot 300,000 peaceful people in Petrograd and his criminal gang.

ryhanhassan Avatar
ryhanhassan:#43389252

>>43389010

>Yes, the alternative, is to sign treaties and if you sign it, don't try to declare them bad later. Just as you did with 1940 treaty. But if you can do it with 1940, we can do it with 1918.

But my point is that the government that signed the treaty in 1940 was not the legitimate government in Estonia. The Soviets took over power, dissolved our state institutions and then had mock elections in 1940, where each district only had one candidate and the only party allowed was the communist party. Others who tried to set up their candidacy were either revoked or even assassinated. The government that was then formed after these elections instantly decided to join the USSR. It's not like Estonians took over Russia and then established a puppet-government in 1918.

>If we will give your Saremaa island for True 100% Pure Estonian Nation State but annex the rest of Estonia, would you be pleased? You will still have nation state then.

Seriously you can't be comparing the island of Saaremaa to the whole of Russia, the largest country in the world?

>That's hardly a consensus. Also if you consider Russian-populated parts as money drain and political instability source, why not free them?

Well, it's pretty hard to see what the actual consensus on this matter is and I've never said the Russian-populated parts are a money drain. If they feel that they need to be "freed", then what's holding them here? Some time ago we even had a program that Russians going back to Russia received money from both the Estonian as well as the Russian state and a free apartment in Russia. A few dozen people used this option, at the most.

>Look at Saaremaa argument. Also such a threats may end like Crimean case did.

Look at my previous answer. Also, where's the threat here? Furthermore, the Russians that arrived here during the occupation should all have been sent back in 1991, since it was illegal for the Soviet Union as on occupying power to bring people into occupied territories. This is stated in the Fourth Geneva Convention, which the Soviet Union signed in 1960.

>Because, again, if you consider 1940 illegitimate to gain political bonuses, then we can do the same with 1918. Otherwise try not to be hostile.

Look above why 1940 is illegitimate and 1918 not. And how are we hostile? The only thing we want is to live in peace, but at times it seems like that is too much to ask for.

emmakardaras Avatar
emmakardaras:#43389277

>>43389252

>But my point is that the government that signed the treaty in 1940 was not the legitimate government in Estonia.

But my point is that the government that signed your independence was not the legitimate government in Russia.

cmzhang Avatar
cmzhang:#43389298

>>43389130
Tries something like offering you to buy their frigates during the Cod Wars so that you could BTFO Anglo scum even harder?

m_kalibry Avatar
m_kalibry:#43389312

>>43389053

>Yes, for some reason. If necessary, it will be of no problem to find a sufficient excuse.

Well, I'd like to see how you market that excuse to the masses.

>There is still Romanov House and it still has official heir.

But do they still claim to be the rightful ruler of the Russian Empire?

>If results of revolution are illegitimate, then so is Estonian independence because it was a result of said revolution.

I'm not saying that the results of revolutions are illegitimate, you said that and I simply expanded on your idea. Why would you think that the results of revolutions are more legitimate than the results of wars for example? After all, Russia conquered the Estonian areas by war when it infringed on the territorial integrity of Sweden.

>No, during 50 years of your existence you officially considered ESSR legitimate and lived by its laws. You had some groups abroad claiming otherwise, but as shown before, there are myriad of different groups claiming things and they succeed only due to power supporting them.

Not exactly, since we literally had about 100 000 Soviet troops stationed here to make sure that we don't rebel against the Soviet Union and try to restore our own state. Are you trying to imply that Russia is also currently occupied by the Russian Army, suppressing the legitimate will of the Russian people?