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Veröffentlicht am 2018-03-13 13:29:37 in /int/

/int/ 44266763: It seems that solar power is a modern dark horse, like ...

freddetastic Avatar
freddetastic:#44266763

It seems that solar power is a modern dark horse, like Internet or a mobile phone a couple of decades ago. Solar energy can very easily provide 100% of the world's energy need in 15-20 years. Kurzweil has long said that it grows exponentially, and it seems that it is. What do you think of it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVQH_NVy1F0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics

michigangraham Avatar
michigangraham:#44266794

Building solar panels in some third world shithole doesn't sound like a good idea. Some savages will come along thinkin the plant is stealing their sun and destroy it.

markolschesky Avatar
markolschesky:#44266826

Only thing you need is a free solar panel

jrxmember Avatar
jrxmember:#44266836

Why isn't Stirling Engined reflective panels more popular than Solar panels? Solar panels are way harder to produce, less effective (required space is 6m2 per kW), hard to recycle etc etc

I don't like to simply call eveything Jew, but this time it's clear that Jew is behind this

bergmartin Avatar
bergmartin:#44266869

Generally Yes, at the moment the main problem are the power ups and downs, similar to wind energy. For to rely on these sources huge scale power storage is needed, but nobody wants to invest in it.

yassiryahya Avatar
yassiryahya:#44266876

>>44266836
That's solar power, too.

itskawsar Avatar
itskawsar:#44266932

>>44266836
Because stirling works on temerature difference, you need cool it down somehow. In regions with enough sun it is quite complicated task to coll down stirling without loosing too much power.

matt3224 Avatar
matt3224:#44266934

>>44266836
>Solar panels are way harder to produce
Its don't

naupintos Avatar
naupintos:#44267038

>>44266763
>can very easily provide 100% of the world's energy need
It can't.
First because there's simply not enough silver and rare metals to construct that many panels.
Second because it only produces full power under direct light, less at dawn and dusk, even less when it's cloudy, and none at night, overall they produce 10-20% of their nameplate capacity on average.
Before you say storage, there's also not enough cobalt and nickel to construct enough batteries. Although pumped-hydro using sea water, thermal storage or hydrogen could be used, but none of it is commercial yet.

carlosgavina Avatar
carlosgavina:#44267097

>>44267038
>not enough cobalt and nickel
Pathetic grabbing at straws

Bernd Avatar
Bernd:#44267111

>>44267038
This is not a problem. You can provide power to the General power grid from other time zones where there is still a day.

polarity Avatar
polarity:#44267126

interesting thing also is that in 10-20 years the biggest consumers of electricity will be data centers

solar + data centers and "crypto mining" is a match made in heaven

bnquoctoan Avatar
bnquoctoan:#44267224

>>44267111
Then you'd have to build hundreds of gigawatts of powerlines, would probably cost a fortune. Also, linkage between different timezones isn't enough, you'd have to connect northern and southern hemispheres too (or else there'd be major shortage in winter when days are much shorter).
Overall, it could be physically doable with those panels which don't use rare materials and A LOT of time and money, but not quite likely in observable future.
>>44267126
Data centers need continuous power, so does transaction confirmation for cryptocurrencies.

robergd Avatar
robergd:#44267226

>slavthread

linux29 Avatar
linux29:#44267237

>dark horse

What does that mean?

adammarsbar Avatar
adammarsbar:#44267261

>>44267237
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_horse

trueblood_33 Avatar
trueblood_33:#44267262

>>44267224
A lot of these problems could be solved by having large power storages.

ademilter Avatar
ademilter:#44267270

>>44267237
It means a quiet competitor nobody expects to do well, then surprises everyone by winning the race.

mr_arcadio Avatar
mr_arcadio:#44267282

Zero chance of this without the political will. Internet and mobile phones are being rolled back to some degree as well.

lisovsky Avatar
lisovsky:#44267293

>>44266932
Well it's doable even in a desert, as you see in pic.

>>44266934
Solar panels are made of crystal silicon but reflector are just polished aluminum. So it's do

smenov Avatar
smenov:#44267299

>>44267111
>You can provide power to the General power grid from other time zones where there is still a day
Jesust christ.

subtik Avatar
subtik:#44267325

>>44267282
> Zero chance of this without the political will.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/renewable-energy-cheaper-fossil-fuels-2020-uk-green-climate-change-global-warming-report-irea-a8160051.html

davidsasda Avatar
davidsasda:#44267328

>>44267262
I'd guess 100GW powerlines across timezones are more doable than 15000 TWh of storage.
>>44267282
More like zero chance of it without a global government willing to spend hundreds of trillions on it.

posterjob Avatar
posterjob:#44267334

Energy prices will kill alternate/ renewable energy production. Basic economics, the higher the supply the lower the prices. It's just not economical to invest in solar panels without gov subsidies. They just lack the efficiency to compete with high density energy production methods.
I love it when treehuggers cheer when energy prices turn negative for a few hours in germany but they forget that with those prices not a single investment will ever pay off. They are turning the whole energy sector into a black hole for money.

craigelimeliah Avatar
craigelimeliah:#44267412

>Solar energy can very easily provide 100% of the world's energy need in 15-20 years.
Europe is almost impossible.

steynviljoen Avatar
steynviljoen:#44267420

>>44267334
Germany is at 8% solar power by now and we don't have that much sun, it will get to 20% without prolems

herkulano Avatar
herkulano:#44267453

It is overwhelmingly more efficient to make it in a fusion reactor.

christauziet Avatar
christauziet:#44267466

>>44267420
>It's just not economical to invest in solar panels without gov subsidies

souuf Avatar
souuf:#44267511

>>44267111

You need a modern power grip for that and one that goes over all these time zones. Tremendous costs.

chatyrko Avatar
chatyrko:#44267532

>>44267334

That's so far away from reality that it is funny.

marciotoledo Avatar
marciotoledo:#44267562

Also, what are averages. A couple of years ago when German renewable production reached a daily hight of 66% or something I managed to find the daily production reports. There were days in that year where the production was literally ZERO. But no media ever reports such things.

aleclarsoniv Avatar
aleclarsoniv:#44267568

>>44267466
It's actually investment in Northern Sea offshore windparks that is mostly driving our prices up

oskamaya Avatar
oskamaya:#44267577

>>44267532
This is the reality in Hungary. Home producers have to sell electricity at the same price as powerplants which makes photostatic a break even investment.

alexcican Avatar
alexcican:#44267606

>>44267577
Currently it takes ten years to break even with your solar panels.

It's not worth it at the moment but as soon as the cheap chinese ones start arriving once the EU lifts the tariffs it will be 3 years before a solar panel is worth it, that's an investment I would make myself.

lisovsky Avatar
lisovsky:#44267610

Solar power isn't a dark horse and isn't like the Internet at all. The web was built off a much greater telecommunications network built for landline phones, such an analogy doesn't work with solar power.

Also: those pictures make huge solar power plants look easy to build, but they aren't because (a) it's a massive space of land that has to be bought (b) a huge amount of panels that have to be built (and rebuilt after 25-50ish years), and (c) there's still the issue of power generation during nighttime hours.

>>44266836

Because it's bigger and more expensive, you can't just plop it on your roof. But examples exist all over the American southwest as full-size molten salt power plants.

andrewgurylev Avatar
andrewgurylev:#44267622

>>44267334
Negative prices happen when there's suddenly a lot of unneeded energy from wind/sun, but since wind/solar power plants are paid by the government no matter what there's no reason to shut them down. German coal plants cannot be shut down quickly, so they pay neighbouring countries to temporarily shut down their hydro or gas plants and use German electricity instead. Coal plants will later sell electricity at higher prices to compensate for the losses though.
The only way solar can make sense in a market economy is if the grid is a combination of gas/hydro and solar, and there's no subsidies or mandates, and solar capital costs + maintenance is cheaper than just the fuel costs of gas plants. Anything other than that will make electricity very expensive and unreliable.
>>44267562
Well, 8% doesn't make big news to support your narrative, so why report it.

mefahad Avatar
mefahad:#44267663

>>44267606
>as soon as the cheap chinese ones start arriving
What do you mean? Chinese are the sole main producers since a long time.

husamyousf Avatar
husamyousf:#44267681

>>44267606
I've calculated costs for an off-grid system with enough overgeneration to run in winter and a battery big enough for a couple cloudy days, and it doesn't break even at all, it actually costs three times more than buying from the grid. And even just the panels (and using the grid when there's no light) don't make any sense. But we don't have any subsidies, so that's expectable.

_vojto Avatar
_vojto:#44267685

>>44267663
That explains why my neighbors roof is covered in the things. BRB buying solar panels.

chaabane_wail Avatar
chaabane_wail:#44267712

>>44267577
Hungary energy market is about 0,1 of the world market. All major industry countries invest huge amounts of money in renewables before all other energy technologies.

iamglimy Avatar
iamglimy:#44267725

>>44267606
>Currently it takes ten years to break even with your solar panels.

>It's not worth it

Contradicting yourself.

olgary Avatar
olgary:#44267779

china is going to curbstomp everyone in the future because they weren't afraid of nuclear energy and made the leap to LFTR

snowshade Avatar
snowshade:#44267830

The problem isn't collecting the energy, it's storing it.

urbanjahvier Avatar
urbanjahvier:#44267845

>>44267685
>Between 2008 and 2013, China’s fledgling solar-electric panel industry dropped world prices by 80 percent
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-china-is-dominating-the-solar-industry/

markgamzy Avatar
markgamzy:#44267849

>>44267681
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pe1Z7WFf7s
This guy lives pretty well with solar in the UK (the gloomiest place on earth)

newbrushes Avatar
newbrushes:#44267853

>>44267725
Solar panels have a life expectancy of 10 years.

jonkspr Avatar
jonkspr:#44267858

>>44267830
The problem is not storing the energy, but storing it efficiently.

andrewgurylev Avatar
andrewgurylev:#44267874

>>44267853
lol, maybe Hungarian solar panels

https://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/life-expectancy-solar-panels

freddetastic Avatar
freddetastic:#44267876

>>44267853
Not really.

aadesh Avatar
aadesh:#44267885

>>44267853
It's somewhere between 20 and 30.

cbracco Avatar
cbracco:#44267891

>>44267681
>with enough overgeneration to run in Russian winter

Problem detected

betraydan Avatar
betraydan:#44268022

renewables are going to suck dicks until we come up with better energy storge methods.

>Germany this and that
Germany produces more CO2 than ever because they built tonns of lignite-burning power plants to compensate the shutdown of ebuuul nucular plants.

mrzero158 Avatar
mrzero158:#44268326

>>44267891
But I'm at 44N, July is only two times sunnier than December here (meaning you need only double overgeneration, far up north you could need 10 times or even more).
>>44267779
The Chinese are the ones most profiting from the solar hype, they are the ones manufacturing the panels after all. I don't think they develop any liquid salt reactors, it seems to be an American thing.

murrayswift Avatar
murrayswift:#44268348

>>44267779
If you cooperate with France, you can kick China.

souuf Avatar
souuf:#44268372

>>44268326
69N
Whole summer is sun even at night, but clouds much more often than sun.

bagawarman Avatar
bagawarman:#44268492

>>44268372
Murmansk?

iamsteffen Avatar
iamsteffen:#44268538

>>44268492
Nope, Atlantic ocean
Yes, of cource I don't thing there anything on this level exept this city lol

snowshade Avatar
snowshade:#44268582

>>44267293
>>44266836
My guess is that since it has mechanical parts it'll require maintenance way more often. I also suspect that since the mirror in the stirling case is concave, the loss in efficiency due to not being aligned with sun rays is much bigger than with the flat solar panels, which means it would require yet another mechanical part for a rotating mechanism to keep it aligned.

iqbalperkasa Avatar
iqbalperkasa:#44270015

>>44268582
Most industrial solar panels have tracking mechanisms to align them with the sun. Static rooftop panels are really inefficient.

shadowfreakapps Avatar
shadowfreakapps:#44270092

Will it become free in nearest future?

terpimost Avatar
terpimost:#44270218

>>44270092
No.