Veröffentlicht am 2018-03-13 13:29:37 in /int/

/int/ 44266763: It seems that solar power is a modern dark horse, like ...

freddetastic Avatar

It seems that solar power is a modern dark horse, like Internet or a mobile phone a couple of decades ago. Solar energy can very easily provide 100% of the world's energy need in 15-20 years. Kurzweil has long said that it grows exponentially, and it seems that it is. What do you think of it?

michigangraham Avatar

Building solar panels in some third world shithole doesn't sound like a good idea. Some savages will come along thinkin the plant is stealing their sun and destroy it.

markolschesky Avatar

Only thing you need is a free solar panel

jrxmember Avatar

Why isn't Stirling Engined reflective panels more popular than Solar panels? Solar panels are way harder to produce, less effective (required space is 6m2 per kW), hard to recycle etc etc

I don't like to simply call eveything Jew, but this time it's clear that Jew is behind this

bergmartin Avatar

Generally Yes, at the moment the main problem are the power ups and downs, similar to wind energy. For to rely on these sources huge scale power storage is needed, but nobody wants to invest in it.

yassiryahya Avatar

That's solar power, too.

itskawsar Avatar

Because stirling works on temerature difference, you need cool it down somehow. In regions with enough sun it is quite complicated task to coll down stirling without loosing too much power.

matt3224 Avatar

>Solar panels are way harder to produce
Its don't

naupintos Avatar

>can very easily provide 100% of the world's energy need
It can't.
First because there's simply not enough silver and rare metals to construct that many panels.
Second because it only produces full power under direct light, less at dawn and dusk, even less when it's cloudy, and none at night, overall they produce 10-20% of their nameplate capacity on average.
Before you say storage, there's also not enough cobalt and nickel to construct enough batteries. Although pumped-hydro using sea water, thermal storage or hydrogen could be used, but none of it is commercial yet.

carlosgavina Avatar

>not enough cobalt and nickel
Pathetic grabbing at straws

Bernd Avatar

This is not a problem. You can provide power to the General power grid from other time zones where there is still a day.

polarity Avatar

interesting thing also is that in 10-20 years the biggest consumers of electricity will be data centers

solar + data centers and "crypto mining" is a match made in heaven

bnquoctoan Avatar

Then you'd have to build hundreds of gigawatts of powerlines, would probably cost a fortune. Also, linkage between different timezones isn't enough, you'd have to connect northern and southern hemispheres too (or else there'd be major shortage in winter when days are much shorter).
Overall, it could be physically doable with those panels which don't use rare materials and A LOT of time and money, but not quite likely in observable future.
Data centers need continuous power, so does transaction confirmation for cryptocurrencies.

robergd Avatar


linux29 Avatar

>dark horse

What does that mean?

adammarsbar Avatar


trueblood_33 Avatar

A lot of these problems could be solved by having large power storages.

ademilter Avatar

It means a quiet competitor nobody expects to do well, then surprises everyone by winning the race.

mr_arcadio Avatar

Zero chance of this without the political will. Internet and mobile phones are being rolled back to some degree as well.

lisovsky Avatar

Well it's doable even in a desert, as you see in pic.

Solar panels are made of crystal silicon but reflector are just polished aluminum. So it's do

smenov Avatar

>You can provide power to the General power grid from other time zones where there is still a day
Jesust christ.

subtik Avatar

> Zero chance of this without the political will.

davidsasda Avatar

I'd guess 100GW powerlines across timezones are more doable than 15000 TWh of storage.
More like zero chance of it without a global government willing to spend hundreds of trillions on it.

posterjob Avatar

Energy prices will kill alternate/ renewable energy production. Basic economics, the higher the supply the lower the prices. It's just not economical to invest in solar panels without gov subsidies. They just lack the efficiency to compete with high density energy production methods.
I love it when treehuggers cheer when energy prices turn negative for a few hours in germany but they forget that with those prices not a single investment will ever pay off. They are turning the whole energy sector into a black hole for money.

craigelimeliah Avatar

>Solar energy can very easily provide 100% of the world's energy need in 15-20 years.
Europe is almost impossible.

steynviljoen Avatar

Germany is at 8% solar power by now and we don't have that much sun, it will get to 20% without prolems

herkulano Avatar

It is overwhelmingly more efficient to make it in a fusion reactor.

christauziet Avatar

>It's just not economical to invest in solar panels without gov subsidies

souuf Avatar


You need a modern power grip for that and one that goes over all these time zones. Tremendous costs.

chatyrko Avatar


That's so far away from reality that it is funny.

marciotoledo Avatar

Also, what are averages. A couple of years ago when German renewable production reached a daily hight of 66% or something I managed to find the daily production reports. There were days in that year where the production was literally ZERO. But no media ever reports such things.

aleclarsoniv Avatar

It's actually investment in Northern Sea offshore windparks that is mostly driving our prices up

oskamaya Avatar

This is the reality in Hungary. Home producers have to sell electricity at the same price as powerplants which makes photostatic a break even investment.

alexcican Avatar

Currently it takes ten years to break even with your solar panels.

It's not worth it at the moment but as soon as the cheap chinese ones start arriving once the EU lifts the tariffs it will be 3 years before a solar panel is worth it, that's an investment I would make myself.

lisovsky Avatar

Solar power isn't a dark horse and isn't like the Internet at all. The web was built off a much greater telecommunications network built for landline phones, such an analogy doesn't work with solar power.

Also: those pictures make huge solar power plants look easy to build, but they aren't because (a) it's a massive space of land that has to be bought (b) a huge amount of panels that have to be built (and rebuilt after 25-50ish years), and (c) there's still the issue of power generation during nighttime hours.


Because it's bigger and more expensive, you can't just plop it on your roof. But examples exist all over the American southwest as full-size molten salt power plants.

andrewgurylev Avatar

Negative prices happen when there's suddenly a lot of unneeded energy from wind/sun, but since wind/solar power plants are paid by the government no matter what there's no reason to shut them down. German coal plants cannot be shut down quickly, so they pay neighbouring countries to temporarily shut down their hydro or gas plants and use German electricity instead. Coal plants will later sell electricity at higher prices to compensate for the losses though.
The only way solar can make sense in a market economy is if the grid is a combination of gas/hydro and solar, and there's no subsidies or mandates, and solar capital costs + maintenance is cheaper than just the fuel costs of gas plants. Anything other than that will make electricity very expensive and unreliable.
Well, 8% doesn't make big news to support your narrative, so why report it.

mefahad Avatar

>as soon as the cheap chinese ones start arriving
What do you mean? Chinese are the sole main producers since a long time.

husamyousf Avatar

I've calculated costs for an off-grid system with enough overgeneration to run in winter and a battery big enough for a couple cloudy days, and it doesn't break even at all, it actually costs three times more than buying from the grid. And even just the panels (and using the grid when there's no light) don't make any sense. But we don't have any subsidies, so that's expectable.

_vojto Avatar

That explains why my neighbors roof is covered in the things. BRB buying solar panels.

chaabane_wail Avatar

Hungary energy market is about 0,1 of the world market. All major industry countries invest huge amounts of money in renewables before all other energy technologies.

iamglimy Avatar

>Currently it takes ten years to break even with your solar panels.

>It's not worth it

Contradicting yourself.

olgary Avatar

china is going to curbstomp everyone in the future because they weren't afraid of nuclear energy and made the leap to LFTR

snowshade Avatar

The problem isn't collecting the energy, it's storing it.

urbanjahvier Avatar

>Between 2008 and 2013, China’s fledgling solar-electric panel industry dropped world prices by 80 percent

markgamzy Avatar

This guy lives pretty well with solar in the UK (the gloomiest place on earth)

newbrushes Avatar

Solar panels have a life expectancy of 10 years.

jonkspr Avatar

The problem is not storing the energy, but storing it efficiently.

andrewgurylev Avatar

lol, maybe Hungarian solar panels

freddetastic Avatar

Not really.

aadesh Avatar

It's somewhere between 20 and 30.

cbracco Avatar

>with enough overgeneration to run in Russian winter

Problem detected

betraydan Avatar

renewables are going to suck dicks until we come up with better energy storge methods.

>Germany this and that
Germany produces more CO2 than ever because they built tonns of lignite-burning power plants to compensate the shutdown of ebuuul nucular plants.

mrzero158 Avatar

But I'm at 44N, July is only two times sunnier than December here (meaning you need only double overgeneration, far up north you could need 10 times or even more).
The Chinese are the ones most profiting from the solar hype, they are the ones manufacturing the panels after all. I don't think they develop any liquid salt reactors, it seems to be an American thing.

murrayswift Avatar

If you cooperate with France, you can kick China.

souuf Avatar

Whole summer is sun even at night, but clouds much more often than sun.

bagawarman Avatar


iamsteffen Avatar

Nope, Atlantic ocean
Yes, of cource I don't thing there anything on this level exept this city lol

snowshade Avatar

My guess is that since it has mechanical parts it'll require maintenance way more often. I also suspect that since the mirror in the stirling case is concave, the loss in efficiency due to not being aligned with sun rays is much bigger than with the flat solar panels, which means it would require yet another mechanical part for a rotating mechanism to keep it aligned.

iqbalperkasa Avatar

Most industrial solar panels have tracking mechanisms to align them with the sun. Static rooftop panels are really inefficient.

shadowfreakapps Avatar

Will it become free in nearest future?

terpimost Avatar